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How to remove clutch side casing from CB250 Nighthawk

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BusterGonads
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Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 15 Aug 2019    Post subject: How to remove clutch side casing from CB250 Nighthawk Reply with quote

Should be easy enough. You'd thinks so, but it won't come off.

I wanted to check and clean the oil screen filter under the oil pump on this 12,000 mile, 1997, 250 Nighthawk. I just bought it last week. It runs great, but the previous owner says he doesn't think it had its oil screen cleaned in the time he had it. He was about the fourth owner though. It is possible it was done early on, but anyway - there is only one way to know what state it is in and that is to check.

I bought the gasket and drained the oil and in a short time all the bolts securing the clutch side casing were off and stored in order. The casing did not want to part from its partner though, even after tapping firmly with a rubber mallet and a wooden one.

I've had a good few casings off bikes, all old Brit ones and after a good tap, they come off. Same with my old cars back in the seventies and eighties. This one wasn't going to come off without what I would regard as a dangerous level of violence, so I bolted it all back up, reconnected clutch and tacho drive and put in 1.5 litres of synthetic motorbike oil.

The filter will have to wait a thousand miles until I do another oil change now, but I do want it inspected and cleaned.

Where am I going wrong. A mate I spoke to said you often need to put a blow torch on the case to break the seal. That sounds dodgy, and I don't know where to apply the heat.

Any help would be great if you know the solution. Thanks.

https://photos.smugmug.com/My-First-Gallery/i-cFP76jW/0/f435a4f1/XL/Nighthawk%20clutch%20side-XL.jpg
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 15 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

First question has to be are you sure you've got all of the bolts?

Here's a how to video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n74usl268A
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 21:42 - 15 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Questions about a CB250? Shocked

Oh dear, you've really gone and done it now!! I hope you know what you've let yourself in for. Laughing
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 15 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
First question has to be are you sure you've got all of the bolts?

Here's a how to video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n74usl268A


Thanks.

Yes - that was the first thing I thought of after I'd given it a tentative tap with the wooden mallet. I went right around the case with a good torch and had a careful look. You can see all of the fastenings in hat photo I uploaded and they were all out and placed in a paper copy of the new gasket.

EDIT:

The answer is shown in that video you posted. At 1 minute:5 seconds the guy demonstrates the technique for breaking the seal. Easy when you know how. I will wait until the next oil change and do it then. Thanks for the help Islander. Great video.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 16 Aug 2019    Post subject: 250 Reply with quote

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb250-nighthawk-1997-v-usa_model7213/partslist/E++06.html


https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb250-nighthawk-1997-v-usa_model7213/partslist/E++13.html

When that cover is off it would be worth while to flush out the sump of all the debris on it.
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 16 Aug 2019    Post subject: Re: 250 Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
When that cover is off it would be worth while to flush out the sump of all the debris on it.


I'm seriously hoping there is no debris floating about in there. I was talking to a retired Honda bike mechanic and he said there would probably be bugger all on the screen and that if the oil had been changed regularly the job would turn out to be a pointless ball ache. Not sure if he is nuts or telling it as it is. Don't know him very well.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 17 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check you have removed alkl bolts again. The bolyts that hold the bvracket that holds the clutch cable also hold the primary drive cover.. have you removed cablre & bracket?
Leaving trhe bracket and cable and working the clutch lever to pry the casiung against the cluytch 'may' halp loose it off a bit in the direction it gotta come, unlike tapping side-ways witrh rubber mallet.
Otherwide.. OTMH I dont recall an lication dowels or anything in there... so I would guess its just been glued on with gluoopy chit instead of gasket paper.... or both..

Maybe time toe be a bit heavy handed... Two-Fifty dont have a tacho drive on the front of the casing to loose off does it? Probably just time to get Snowie Handed.... if in doubt give it a clout! If still in doubt give it a bigga clout!
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 17 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Check you have removed alkl bolts again. The bolyts that hold the bvracket that holds the clutch cable also hold the primary drive cover.. have you removed cablre & bracket?
Leaving trhe bracket and cable and working the clutch lever to pry the casiung against the cluytch 'may' halp loose it off a bit in the direction it gotta come, unlike tapping side-ways witrh rubber mallet.
Otherwide.. OTMH I dont recall an lication dowels or anything in there... so I would guess its just been glued on with gluoopy chit instead of gasket paper.... or both..


I'm certain all bolts were out. The clutch cable bracket was of course off and so was the tacho drive. The engine does have two locating dowels. The video pasted by Islander shows how it is done, and next oil change, I will have another go.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 17 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loosen the bolts, then pull the clutch lever. That usually pops off the cover.
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 07:11 - 18 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Loosen the bolts, then pull the clutch lever. That usually pops off the cover.


That was my first move Robbie. I could work the clutch with a rag wrapped around the lever on the clutch and I did so repeatedly. It was as if I'd left all the bolts in, but I certainly had taken all of them out.

I've taken a few cases off and split car heads from blocks and rocker box cases and all that stuff many a time.This little bugger was well stuck though.

That video that Islander posted shows a good way to get it off this particular engine about one minute into the vid. There is a lump on the case where the tacho cable goes into it, and you can put a hammer handle onto it from the left side front of the bike and tap it firmly off with a mallet. That way, all the force is pushing it in the right direction. My hitting it with a mallet from top or bottom was applying force at 90 degrees to the desired movement. Not sufficient at the force levels I was prepared to apply to an alu case.

Thanks for the tip though.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 19 Aug 2019    Post subject: 250 Reply with quote

That's the wonder of woolies cmsnl i mean as the exploded views show bolts, dowels etc. etc. etc. etc.etc...........

The green oe honda gaskets for the clutch covers usually have a heat activated adhesive ( making them glued on and a little difficult to remove ) meaning the gaskets will tear on removal, thus increasing spares profits......notice that your engine has the oil gallery in the clutch cover............being a ball raced engine......even the cam runs in replaceable bushes rather than in the alloy head.

On these engine ( and similar like c90, cb125t etc. cb125s etc. etc. etc. ) always ( ALWAYS ) use a new gasket, do not ( DO NOT ) use a sealer as this may/will block the very important oilway to the crank etc..

If the clutch cover is coming off, then flush out the sump floor......and dont forget to remove all traces of the old glued on torn gasket from the engine and cover .
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 19 Aug 2019    Post subject: Re: 250 Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
That's the wonder of woolies cmsnl i mean as the exploded views show bolts, dowels etc. etc. etc. etc.etc...........

The green oe honda gaskets for the clutch covers usually have a heat activated adhesive ( making them glued on and a little difficult to remove ) meaning the gaskets will tear on removal, thus increasing spares profits......notice that your engine has the oil gallery in the clutch cover............being a ball raced engine......even the cam runs in replaceable bushes rather than in the alloy head.

On these engine ( and similar like c90, cb125t etc. cb125s etc. etc. etc. ) always ( ALWAYS ) use a new gasket, do not ( DO NOT ) use a sealer as this may/will block the very important oilway to the crank etc..

If the clutch cover is coming off, then flush out the sump floor......and dont forget to remove all traces of the old glued on torn gasket from the engine and cover .


Thanks for the useful info there Bikenut. Much appreciated,

I have a new gasket that I got from wemoto.

I will never use gasket cement. In 1972, I caused two engines to blow up from using too much hermetite gasket goo. One was a Tiger cub engine that I worked on the gearbox of for a mate to replace the bush for the output shaft, and the other was my own bsa C15. Pity that I was so thick I had to do it twice before I realised what was going on. Lumps of gasket sealant inside engines floating about to block oilways. Both had big end failure. Hard lesson, but never forgotten.
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