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Slight whine from new final drive

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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 08:39 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Slight whine from new final drive Reply with quote

So went out for a ride yesterday, about 30 miles, on my fresh sprockets and chain install; thing is, there's a slight whine audible from around 20mph - 50mph (linked to road speed and pulling the clutch has no effect). Really quite faint but it is noticeable (the bike is pretty quiet otherwise); definitely wasn't there before though. Tried going up to similar gears and revs with the bike on the centre stand but couldn't replicate the noise. Bizarrely the noise is more audible with the visor down than up, which makes me think it's being transmitted through the pegs/frame than me hearing it through the air, which could also explain why I couldn't replicate it on the centre stand. Rode through a tunnel too and no difference to noise volume which reinforces the transmitted noise theory I think too.

So, I've checked the tension and we're good, axle is torqued correctly (and I've removed the wheel numerous times before and reinstalled to the same factory torque settings so I don't see that being the issue), alignment is good (measured it axle centre to swingarm pivot centre, less than 1mm difference side to side), sprockets are installed the right way around and the chain and sprockets are all the right size (520).

Things that have changed; sprockets and chain are not the same make/model (previously Kawasaki front sprocket, unknown rear, DID chain, now JT sprockets and chain), front sprocket used to be a rubber cushioned one, now it's a plain steel one.

Tried googling on this and find all sorts of conflicting information, including suggestions the chain is too tight/loose, that it's normal, that it's down to the sprocket change etc etc

It seems unlikely to me I've suddenly got a failing bearing on my hands, it would be quite a coincidence to happen at the same time as a chain/sprocket change, which makes me home in what's changed.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Cheers
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Grubscrew
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d go for either of the wheel bearings or even the carrier bearing.
Reason: there may have been different tension on chain through to sprocket through to wheel via bearings.
Strangely you can go for years without touching the running geometry and by having released it , which I might add would have had a different torque value to when it was reassembled through settlement to a greater or lesser degree.
Have a peek, if you’re careful you can infact prize out one side of a bearing seal and inspect the ball bearings within. It’ll go back easily enough, ( a wipe of grease ).
Keep us posted.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubscrew wrote:
I’d go for either of the wheel bearings or even the carrier bearing.
Reason: there may have been different tension on chain through to sprocket through to wheel via bearings.
Strangely you can go for years without touching the running geometry and by having released it , which I might add would have had a different torque value to when it was reassembled through settlement to a greater or lesser degree.
Have a peek, if you’re careful you can infact prize out one side of a bearing seal and inspect the ball bearings within. It’ll go back easily enough, ( a wipe of grease ).
Keep us posted.


Thing is, I've had the wheel off numerous times in the last few months so it's not like it's a new change (and I always torque up with a torque wrench to the same setting). The chain tension is basically unchanged too as I keep on top of that. Bearings seem good, run perfectly smooth with no play. To be honest, it doesn't sound like a bearing noise really, it's more like a worn synchro whine (although that's obviously impossbile, but it's the closest thing I can relate it to).
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 09:06 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Re: Slight whine from new final drive Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
alignment is good (measured it axle centre to swingarm pivot centre, less than 1mm difference side to side)

My first thought was "Alignment". Can you check it by some other means? Can you se any polishing on the side of the front sprocket teeth?

The change of front sprocket type could have something to do with it.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stock sprocket was probably rubber backed for damping which reduces noise. The new one won't be, so it's possible there the only reason.

But check wheel bearings anyway.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgm wrote:
The stock sprocket was probably rubber backed for damping which reduces noise. The new one won't be, so it's possible there the only reason.

But check wheel bearings anyway.


I did check this and no movement at all on the rear wheel and it turns smoothly.

If it's connected, the chain does seem to "rattle" onto the front sprocket, much more than the old sprocket (rubber-cushioned though). When spinning the wheel it makes a bit of a noise as the roller pins land in the valleys on the sprocket. Maybe with this sped up sufficiently (i.e. when riding) this sounds like a whine. But nothing is audible below 20mph at all, and I'd expect some noise if this was the case.
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BusterGonads
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've confirmed that chain tension and alignment are correct. Given that, the thing that most sticks out is that the front sprocket used to be rubber mounted and the new one isn't. This will certainly cause mechanical noise transmission to change. If it is really a concern for you, try temporarily reinstating the rubber mounted front sprocket to test if that is the cause. You won't need to ride far to test for the issue, so no need to worry about damage to new chain.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 12 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you clean the old sillycunt lubricunt off the rubber final drive elements and re-lube with fresh sillycunt lubricunt?

It is a maintenance point. And they'll bed-in better coz they wont be so grabby.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 13 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the conclusion is it's sprocket noise . . . I'm happy everything else seems OK, so I don't think (!!) it's going to fall apart on me at 70mph. I'll ride it and see how it goes.

More extensive googling suggests that I'm not the only one to experience this, with some even binning the plain sprocket and buying a cushioned one.
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Scythe
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 13 Aug 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
I think the conclusion is it's sprocket noise . . . I'm happy everything else seems OK, so I don't think (!!) it's going to fall apart on me at 70mph. I'll ride it and see how it goes.

More extensive googling suggests that I'm not the only one to experience this, with some even binning the plain sprocket and buying a cushioned one.

+1 slight whine is normal as the chain wears into the sprocket, happened on every new C&S I've had over a few years. It becomes less noticeable after a few hundred miles.
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