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grossopadlock |
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grossopadlock L Plate Warrior
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Posted: 08:07 - 29 Aug 2019 Post subject: Harley-Davidson Needs a New Generation of Riders |
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The first thing you should do when you meet a Harley-Davidson rider is check the back of his—or her, but let’s be honest, it’s probably his—jacket. The patches tell you who you’re dealing with. First, there’s the insignia. It might be a bald eagle atop the company’s logo to let everyone know this is a Harley guy—not a Honda guy, not a BMW guy, but a red-blooded, flag-waving American patriot. If this particular Harley guy belongs to one of 1,400 company-sponsored Harley Owners Group (H.O.G.) chapters around the world, the insignia will be coupled with a second patch that specifies which H.O.G. he belongs to: the Duluth H.O.G.s, the Waco H.O.G.s., or, today, the H.O.G.s of Long Island.
Sometimes there’s a third patch, for bikers who belong to an independent club—the Blue Knights are cops, the Hells Angels hate cops—but two-patch groups tend not to associate with them. “It’s a different mindset,” says Frank Pellegrino, who on weekdays is a vice president for a plastics outsourcing company and on weekends a Long Island H.O.G.
Pellegrino, who got his first Harley for his 65th birthday last year, is about to spend this cloudless summer Sunday exploring 100 miles along the back roads of New York and Connecticut with about 25 other Harley guys.
relates to Harley-Davidson Needs a New Generation of Riders
Featured in Bloomberg Businessweek, Aug. 27, 2018. Subscribe now.
Photographer: Finlay Mackay for Bloomberg Businessweek; model: Skippy “D”; stylist: Sarah LaThrop; groomer: Mary Darnell
With him today are Joe, Marty, Dennis, Grover, Richie, Bob and his girlfriend, Dawn, and two Mikes, one with an American flag bandanna tied around his head. No one is younger than 45; many are well past 60. They’ve gathered behind a BP station at 8 a.m. in mid-July, sipping coffee and admiring one another’s bikes. At one point, Dennis talks politics with Joe and one of the Mikes.
“What’s the deal with all this fake news about a Europe plant?” Mike without a bandanna asks. “Harley was already going to build overseas, and now they’re just blaming it on the president.”
In June the European Union slapped what’s effectively a 31 percent retaliatory tariff on Harley in response to President Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs. To avoid them, Joe says, Harley will stop making the bikes it sells to Europe in the U.S. The company already has plants in Brazil and India and is in the process of opening one in Thailand.
“Oh, is that the case?” Mike asks. He swears he read something different on the internet.
“I see where they’re coming from,” Dennis says, crossing his arms over his We Stand For The Flag T-shirt. “How are they going to sell over there with millions in tariffs placed on them?”
“I still don’t like it,” Mike says. “Harley ought to be focused on us.”
Three weeks later, and about 1,000 miles away at its headquarters in Milwaukee, Harley-Davidson Inc. announced what executives called the most ambitious overhaul in its 115-year history with a plan that, for the first time in decades, wasn’t focused on riders like Frank or Dennis or the Mikes.
In the next few years, Harley will release more than a dozen motorcycles, many of them small, lightweight, even electric. The new Harleys are intended to reverse years of declining sales and appeal to a new rider: young, urban, and not necessarily American. Harley wants international riders to be half its business in the next 10 years. “We are turning a page in the history of the company,” says Matthew Levatich, chief executive officer. “We’re opening our arms to the next generation.”
Read full news here>>>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-23/harley-davidson-needs-a-new-generation-of-riders ____________________ Custom Leather Jackets |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:40 - 29 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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You know, it's funny, but if HD wants to market their Livewire towards young people outside the US, they're looking at only rather wealthy young people. That's a very expensive way to get down to Starbucks and back. Not being disparaging towards Starbucks or young people in any way, but the range of those things is abysmal, so you're headed to Starbucks and back. Imagine you're a somewhat feckless youth, whether in the Far East or Europe, with 30K-plus to spend. Rather than invest this money sensibly, you're into buying toys. And, rather than buying a much more expensive sports car or electric car, you plump for a bike. You ignore the protestations of danger from your parents. You're hellbent on that Livewire. WHY? Have you seen it in the movies? No. Do your friends have one? No. Are those 9s and 10s in your young social circle impressed by bikes? No. Are you interested in bikes yourself, for their own sake, and for the love of riding? Now, that one's a possibility, but it makes no sense to then plump for a HD. You don't have the "buy American" mindset - you just want the best performance and image you can get (after all, you're a rich youngster to have all that disposable cash). So it doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Bizarrely, whether you buy it or not, HD considers it a win if someone somewhere is talking about them, negatively or positively. That's really weird (not as weird as RE marketing dept's strategies, but weird enough). I'm no marketing whizz-kid, but it seems really silly to marginalise their US customer base, the origins of big noise, willy-waggling, etc. in this way. Pure logic. However, I don't care about "the Motor Company" and see no need to pretend to care. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:01 - 30 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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I never liked Hardly a Davidson bikes.
Heavy, slow, not cornering nor braking well, awful fuel economy, underpowered, unreliable, poor build quality... yet with a premium price tag.
Not that I enjoy cruisers/choppers. If I did, I'd buy a Japanese bike. Even 'merican police use/d Kawasaki motorcycles instead of 'merican made Hardly a Davidsons, because of how bad those HD bikes were/are. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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martin734 |
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martin734 Spanner Monkey
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:30 - 31 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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The Harley thing will always be confusing to most Americans and to all non-Americans. It's a major Achilles heel for HD. It isn't in their best interests if posers take up "the Harley lifestyle", because posers are ridiculous and they turn off potential customers.
Americans have a written constitution, and this has, over the course of time (as Americans along with the rest of the world adopted mass literacy in the early 20th century) transferred over to a sort of attitude of symbolism, signification and bibliolatry towards historic and foundational concepts. For example, American schoolchildren salute the flag every morning and can recite the 10 amendments. Nothing wrong with that, but what I reckon has accompanied this sense of popular reductionism is a detachment from the key ideals that have underpinned American society from the start. Individual liberty, the freedom to adopt any course of action one chooses as long as one owns the consequences entirely upon one own's own head, the freedom to succeed or fail at any enterprise, etc. A belief in the collective good being, ultimately, best served by giving free reign to an unspoken but universally acknowledged desire of the individual to be free. This thinking all stemmed from the religious ideals of the early settlers and the Founding Fathers, at the core of which was the irrepressible, immortal divine spark in the heart of man, which impelled him towards individual autonomy and liberty. To this day, American elites, thinktanks, the highest echelons in American society, are all well familiar with these ideals. However, they have long lost traction among the burgeoning American middle classes, and they are often misunderstood by the rest of the world.
Europeans made their way westward to the Americas to make their fortune. By the time the 20th century arrived, the USA was the world's leading military and economic power. In 1945/46 America made more than half the rest of the world's GDP, summed. How did this happen? Free market capitalism, American style. No regulatory impediment to starting any business, or leaving or taking up any job whatsoever. From the cotton mills to Detroit, this is how it worked. If you were poor there was no safety net, you had to up-sticks and move to these industrial powerhouses, and you could make a decent, comfortable living wage. No class system: you could take your ideas and sell them to the CEO or the BoD, etc. Lots of advantages.
Today, that situation has long since reversed. America is in the process of being completely de-industrialised, and is reaching parity with us and European states, in that regard. Total American GDP is about 15% of the rest of the world, and it's set to hit %10 in about 5 years. That entrepreneurial spirit has been stifled by a lot of red tape, regulation and politics - a system as mired and top-heavy as much as the rest of the world. But there are a few who still have their own, personal "American Dream". People who live off the grid, the equivalent of "travellers" in the UK, people who buy and pay in cash, do odd-jobs, maybe sell a little moonshine or weed, etc. These people are a tiny minority of Americans, but they have a big place in the American mythos, and the whole romance of the "outlaw" image, Jesse James, the wild West, etc. These people have been the subject of movies. They have, perhaps, the most attractive mythology of all American types. This is the image that Harley has been dependent upon to sell bikes since WW2. But when the average American looks in the mirror, they don't see that wild, free guy. They see a square. To play dress-up wouldn't be authentic to them. This is why the whole "Harley lifestyle" thing never made it past the Boomer generation (who are, arguably, the last generation of old-school Americans). The closest thing we have to that authentic "outlaw" thing here is probably the matt black ratrod bike scene, but even that is turning into the poser brigade, because, as Americans say, freedom isn't free, big hat small cows, weekend warriors, etc.
Hope that helps to understand the Harley lifestyle thing, and how it's been lost in translation, and how Harley marketing can't claim any credit for it in any case. |
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steve the grease |
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steve the grease Crazy Courier
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Posted: 22:03 - 12 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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I remember back in the seventies , Harleys were not imported into the UK in anything like the numbers we see them now . They were brought into the UK by a dealer ... Fred Warr , on the Chelsea road somewhere I think, in small batches like a dozen at a time . No one had ever seen one . We all assumed that if Triumphs/ Bsa's ( this is schoolkids right) did 100 or 110 then Harleys at a huge nearly double the capacity of a Triumph 1200cc must be good for some insane speed like 130 or something , .... right?
Then Bike Magazine came out with an article "Harley, the sad truth" and actually tested an Electroglide, properly .
In this article all the myths were exposed, less relable / more oil leaks than a Brit bike ( 20 years pre evo , remember), made of huge tractor like forgings, top speed about 80. I can remember a picture of the guy trying to go round a roundabout at about 30 mph the footboards sparking on the ground furiously. I could go on , but you get the idea. OK things have come on since 1974, but in my experience , even the Evo's are poorly engineered, designed and made. Why would anyone want to buy one? |
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biker7 |
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biker7 Crazy Courier
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Posted: 07:39 - 14 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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The largest number of HD critics by far are those who don't own one and usually ride cheap bikes. I've ridden/owned most bikes in my 50 odd years on 2 wheels. Next to my 4 Harleys, my 2016 Hayabusa gained most admiration. My current Fat Bob (2019) handles, stops and pulls better than most other bikes on the road, new or used. I'd buy another Jap superbike tomorrow except my 70 years may be catching up on me a bit, although I still enjoyed a blast on a Fireblade a few months back. Most Harley knocking is ignorance or plain hot air! Still, if you don't like a particular brand, just don't buy one, no need to go banging on about your views. Vintage Harleys are bloody gorgeous; some new ones better than many who have not ridden them know. I'll be out on my steed later this morning, rain or shine, an old man's hot rod may be. But one thing's for sure it's probably faster away from the lights and gets more approving glances from lorry driver windows than most. Jap, Brit and Italians make great bikes and I love (have owned) most of them, but don't knock Harleys if you meet me on the road, you won't see me for dust but you will hear my Short Shots when I'm in front! ____________________ Swansea area
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Minty |
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Minty World Chat Champion
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:52 - 14 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Very uncool because of the people who ride them... Another major reason why those bikes don't sell.
There was a funny book in the 80s called "How to be a Wally".
Said things like, when you get promoted to team leader at work, you stop hanging out with your old friends, and change your cigarette brand to Silk Cut. You also make sure the company gives you the "GL" version rather than the "L" version of your company car, to make sure everyone knows your status in life (your car and your job define who you are).
New Harleys cost between £6K and £34K. I suspect most change hands, used, at around £8K.
A BMW X5 base model costs what, £55K, and that's not even a high-end luxury car. So if a Harley is a status symbol, what does it really say about you?
I'm firmly in the millenials' corner, or even the hipsters, and not the yuppies, on this one. Rather have a few good ISAs than ride something I don't like to impress people I don't like. |
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biker7 |
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biker7 Crazy Courier
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Posted: 23:18 - 14 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Notice when someone knocks Harley's they don't actually say what lump of shit they actually ride that's so much better. Come on you 'experts' tell us what you ride then we can all have a good laugh too! ____________________ Swansea area
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 07:58 - 15 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Bhud wrote: | Very uncool because of the people who ride them... Another major reason why those bikes don't sell.
New Harleys cost between £6K and £34K. I suspect most change hands, used, at around £8K.
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In the eu at least, cost aside, there's also not even any A2 compliant license Harleys around, without the faff of restricting them. that could change, if they bring into europe the Qianjiang (keeway) design smaller capacity HD's. The electric bike, would be more appealing, but, again, it's the cost, and, range that kills that.
Plus, as has been said already, the image of HD puts off at least as many as it appeals to ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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G The Voice of Reason
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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grr666 |
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grr666 Super Spammer
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biker7 |
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biker7 Crazy Courier
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Posted: 08:56 - 16 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Ah good, a few brave fellows are sharing their bike identities to knock now. Actually my taunt was a ploy because I'm not into insults - if we own a bike, it's great. I've been in biking for a half century and know that no one likes it when someone says their bike is rubbish, let alone they are an 'uncool' individual - bit immature really! Ok - Triumph Sprint - great bike, practical but not so hot on image (image doesn't matter? ....well I prefer my Nike trainers to go running when they are no better than my Tesco versions but the tick on the side makes me feel good!) Triumph Daytona - owned one 3 years back - fabulous machine but for me under powered (I'm into +110 pounds of torque which is what real men prefer (joke)) I'm told I buy bikes for the wrong reasons - well if I like a bit of admiration, that's my business surely. My Harley rides great and has image. I like both those things. Some less experienced riders would be scared shirtless on my steed in it's current state of tune. Still, each to our own. Harley knocking is quite fashionable, I know. HD riders are fairly immune to jibes. Contrary to comments, they are not all wallies, well no more than most bikers I have met, on all makes of bike! Race track, handling, bhp, image....all bollocks. We ride what we ride. I chose my bike because I like it a lot. Is not that what we all do? Think about the bike you would buy if you won the lottery. Well, I'm on mine. Not saying there are not others I love. But HD as a concept is not outdated. Their bikes are great and have a place in the serious biking world. You might disagree. But I might disagree with your reasons! Test ride the new Fat Bob by the way. It is not a million miles away from a high powered sports bike ( and I've owned a fair few of those) but a bit more comfy. ____________________ Swansea area
Fat Bob (2019) |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 192 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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