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Harley-Davidson Needs a New Generation of Riders

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biker7
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 22:56 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
biker7 wrote:
The Bob has nowhere the bhp of the Suzuki but on the drag strip the torque pulls it faster away.

No.
From one site:
https://i.imgur.com/uE5Gk69.png


Mine has Stage 1. The Bob has an electronic throttle. The stock setting is pretty easy going. With the FP3 my throttle is set to Race and is very very quick off the mark. The two bikes in the test could be set up a million ways - who knows. In the first few yards I doubt if there is much difference. We are talking Ferrari fast here off the mark. Not bad for a 'tractor'. Whatever. New Harley's can be very fast. 1750 engines in bikes are never going to be slow. Still, talking about HD's all being crap is just schoolboy mouthing off stuff. Shall we say, you won't have any trouble keeping up with the pack.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
With the FP3 my throttle is set to Race


What sort of racing do they have in mind?
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 03:52 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Kawasaki 1000 did you ride? You've also never told us about your 250 bike.
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owl
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PostPosted: 06:19 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
biker7 wrote:
With the FP3 my throttle is set to Race


What sort of racing do they have in mind?


“Drag” racing
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 06:35 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any decent thou from the last 20 years takes off 'ferrari fast'

Having to modify a bike as soon as you buy it just to achieve what bikes have its size have been doing out of the box is quite appaling and a rip off.
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Old Sod
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such twaddle written by some. Harley vs Other; my attitude vs your attitude, etc. etc.

Ride your bike - enjoy your bike. If it's not as fast as others, doesn't draw admiring looks, doesn't corner like some fast cornering thing - so what? Ride your bike - enjoy etc.

I bought my first and only Harley in 1965, a WL45 rebuild by Fred Warr when he had the shop in King's Road (the Fulham end) and another round the corner in Waterford Rd. The King's Rd. shop was magical back then, had a smell of its own, a cross between oil, petrol and leather. Monster machines on display, engines, posters.

Hand change, foot clutch, Castle forks, three foot wide handlebars - this wasn't what we were brought up on in the UK, but it was glorious. This was where Roy Rogers met Union Pacific style-wise.

That bike took me to work every day, anywhere and everywhere I wanted to ride at weekends, visiting relations hundreds of miles away in all weather conditions, and was the only bike I have ridden in snow that didn't throw me off. Never did it break down, and whilst the ladies liked it, my greatest pleasure was riding country lanes (even 'green lanes') slow and steady, listening to that exhaust, or just cruising along at 55mph. If I had the opportunity to have just one bike of all that I have owned, and all that may be currently available, that old 45 would be it.

I rode it through my teens and early twenties, and was stupid enough (not to mention skint) to have sold it for a few hundred quid in the mid seventies.

Don't compare Harleys to any other bike. It's like comparing a particular fine wine to whisky. You choose what you like.

https://i.ibb.co/gydYmp3/Derek-s-Harley-KPL736-0001-2-cropped.jpg[/img]
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TheWhiteBaron
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PostPosted: 08:20 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would actually buy a Harley. Bickering aside, I'm sure after so many decades they can't be any worse than Lexmoto, and there's more models than the Ducati Scrambler Laughing

After visiting most major manufacturers websites, I find there's a bit of a lack of choice in the cruiser area tbh, Harley could probably fill that gap, the street rods ain't thaaaaat expensive, just 1k more than the new Rebel, which I tried and didn't like.
Personally, I think they need more smaller cc cheaper bikes, because I'd argue that's what gets youngsters hooked, try the small bike, love it, get the big one when you pass your A2/A test. I love my bike CB400, but when I pass my A, I'm gonna get a CB900.

Quality/Handling wise, never ridden or owned one, so I can not comment. Still, I would never argue a cruiser is better because it handles better than most bikes...that is not what cruisers are made for, I've read many reviews of "sporty" or "scrambler" cruisers, they're always a let down in that department, because that is not what they were made for.

But as many say, any bike can be your forever bike and take you most places. Hell my dad took is firs car, an Opel/Vauxhall Corsa A 1000cc EVERYWHERE, toured through eastern europe, when he lived in the countryside in his 20s the roads where unpaved and more rut than anything else, and it worked for him. He still thinks it was one of his best cars, even if most will agree it's a shitty cheap cage.

I initially wanted a cruiser when I first thought about biking, but when I finally got around to it, I didn't like the ones I dreamed about any more, was much more into standards/nakeds/"""scramblers""", but I still like some cruisers, right now that would be a late model Honda Magna, but could just as well be some har har har har har ley.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 09:26 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
. 1750 engines in bikes are never going to be slow

They are in cases where the bike makes 87hp and weighs 306kg.
Not slow compared to that 1.5 Clio Diesel I mentioned, but slow for a bike.
So it's not unreasonable that the now nearly 25 year old 250cc bikes I used to own are listed as faster than this bike with seven times the capacity:!:

Also "Ferrari fast" doesn't say much.
What is impressive is that Ferraris are now "Bike fast" - a new Ferrari 488 can just about manage to equal a Thunderace, (which have been around the £1k price point for years) in a standing quarter mile.

I absolutely believe you WILL have massive trouble "keeping up with the pack". How about a Brands Hatch Indy trackday - I'll even pay for your day if you can 'keep up' Wink .

Quote:

Don't compare Harleys to any other bike. It's like comparing a particular fine wine to whisky. You choose what you like.

Well, we are comparing Harleys to other bikes, despite your request. Should we not compare them because they are lacking and it paints them in a bad light?
I also compared them to a cheap car and found them pretty lacking too.
Or are there some redeeming qualities we have missed?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we can't compare Harleys to... an Indian Rolling Eyes

The only thing we could seriously have a discussion on is "do they offer value for money?"

When I was considering either an Iron 883 or the Vulcan S (i.e. chalk vs cheese) one central theme through all the reviews was "this makes a great starting point" for the HD and "you'd better like it as it is 'cos there's feck all you can do with the Vulcan and, actually, feck all that needs doing."

I think that's just the Jap mentality with vehicles though: all the options come as standard Smile

Question: if you spent 6 bags on the Kwak versus 6 bags on a Harley and then spent another 2 bags on the latter just to get it "perfected" would you expect the HD to sell for substantially more in say 3 or 4 years 'cos of the work you'd put into it?

I'm all for personalising a bike and making it your own but HDs seem event more of a money pit than most.
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Old Sod
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than say "Don't compare Harleys to other bikes . . " I should have said - "There's not a lot of point comparing Harleys to most other bikes . . "

For what I thought to be logical reasons. Oh well.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 12:58 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess a Harley would hold value a good bit better than a Japanese bike? You're paying for the badge more than the tech, as we're seeing here - so providing the badge holds value, I'd hope that'd buoy the value of their used bikes.
Old Sod wrote:
For what I thought to be logical reasons. Oh well.

Go on then; spell them out for us logic-challenged folk!
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 14:14 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
So we can't compare Harleys to... an Indian Rolling Eyes



Thats wracist...

Old Sod wrote:
Rather than say "Don't compare Harleys to other bikes . . " I should have said - "There's not a lot of point comparing Harleys to most other bikes . . "

For what I thought to be logical reasons. Oh well.


Comparing a 65 year old Harley with a 65 year old brit or italian bike was fair do's, but even then Jap tech was better.

These days, comparing 60s tech (because thats they still really are) against a 21st century bike is pointless, as you say.

The only real equivelent are the Enfields coming out of India.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
I had a 250. Handled great, I agree. Problem came when trying to do a fast overtake. You love Harleys then? Laughing

No. They don't do "fast overtakes" in comparison to, well, anything over a 500 parallel twin. Shit, my clapped out 23yr old VFR with 115K miles and utterly fucked suspension will still outhandle and outdrag your shiny bag of shite.

Harley had a glimmer of where to go with the Vrod, a first footstep on the right path, And they fucked that up as well.
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Last edited by ThatDippyTwat on 21:10 - 17 Oct 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 19:44 - 17 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the late 80s the americans stuck a protectionist import duty on anything over 700 cc to protect harley. They should have let it die.
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Old Sod
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PostPosted: 06:57 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Comparing a 65 year old Harley with a 65 year old brit or italian bike was fair do's, but even then Jap tech was better.

These days, comparing 60s tech (because thats they still really are) against a 21st century bike is pointless, as you say.

The only real equivelent are the Enfields coming out of India.


True, though the 1964 Honda CB72 gearbox seized on me twice during warantee, and the later CX500's I ran had generator failures and cam chain slipper tensioner failures, and the Bosch generators on the BMW ('78 R80/7) would fail, and their valve heads drop off, just as the Guzzi V50 did. Replace the V50 valves every 45,000 miles so one wag says. I did run mine to 100,000, so can't complain. I reckon they're good for 70,000, but your chancing it after that.

The Borg & Beck replacement clutch I fitted in the R80 stripped its rivets in less than 2,000miles, replaced f.o.c., and the AP clutch in the Guzzi would self destruct, sending small pieces of broken spring around the bell housing in a 3-4,000rpm blender, eventually spitting them out the timing bung hole (where'd that bung go to??) and brushing past your leg. The joys etc.

Guzzi fun:

https://i.ibb.co/j4tHdHM/The-great-escape-I-Medium.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3MQKZP7/The-great-escapees-Medium.jpg
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biker7
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 14:52 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/NiW47AM5Cwc
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 14:57 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
https://youtu.be/NiW47AM5Cwc


needs more space than a bus to do a U turn.
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TheWhiteBaron
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So could this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFzhc3i0PRY
I'd think it's more to do with the rider than the bike.

It does look lovely though. I'd trade my bike that in the couple times my gf decides she wants to go to Margate.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, good luck with a UK cul-de-sac Rolling Eyes
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheWhiteBaron wrote:
So could this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFzhc3i0PRY
I'd think it's more to do with the rider than the bike.

It does look lovely though. I'd trade my bike that in the couple times my gf decides she wants to go to Margate.


No, it's got not more to do with the rider rather than bike and you would see that if you ever rode one. Cruisers are crap at slowing down, acceleration and cornering. That video you've posted is 'murican, so those riders are scared shitless to even use the front brake.

#youtubeisnotreallife
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 18:00 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the road outside my old house (and thats my car, the blue C1 to the right in the parking space.)

I used to ride down the rhs of the road, do a u-turn and go up onto the pavement where the disabled space (dropped curb) behind the car on the left so that I could then reverse the bike onto my front path.

https://i.imgur.com/BXKB8ko.jpg

to put it here.

https://i.imgur.com/R0XQKr4.jpg

I'd like to see a fatpig do that. And that was on my FZ and my exup, without feet going down. Sports bikes are famed for their lack of steering lock....

(Ornamental cherry tree before you ask. Rosewarn close in Bath, before you ask, posh as fuck, I am.)
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
This is the road outside my old house (and thats my car, the blue C1 to the right in the parking space.)

I used to ride down the rhs of the road, do a u-turn and go up onto the pavement where the disabled space (dropped curb) behind the car on the left so that I could then reverse the bike onto my front path.

https://i.imgur.com/BXKB8ko.jpg

to put it here.

https://i.imgur.com/R0XQKr4.jpg

I'd like to see a fatpig do that. And that was on my FZ and my exup, without feet going down. Sports bikes are famed for their lack of steering lock....

(Ornamental cherry tree before you ask. Rosewarn close in Bath, before you ask, posh as fuck, I am.)


Did you just give Ste your home address?! Shocked
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste lives 200 yards from my current address....
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfffft, I already know his address, he lives a couple of hundred meters up the road from me.

Things get sent there in the post like free samples of incontinence pants. Mr. Green
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 18 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.mememaker.net/api/bucket?path=static/img/memes/full/2017/May/15/5/sweet-mother-of-god8.jpg
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