Street Triple starting problem

[Mr Hammers]

It's a bit odd, not had this with any vehicle before.

Tuesday morning:
Holding the start button in, the engine cranks briefly but then stops. It'll wait a second or two, then the same again. Without releasing the button, it'll just keep regularly going "kkrrchkk.....kkrrchkk.....kkrrchkk" until button is released. (I'd put up a vid of it, but i left my bloody phone at work)

Thinking maybe the battery is struggling under load, i leave it on trickle charge all day. Get home, fires up no probs. Yay.

Wednesday morning:
Starts doing the ''kkrrchkk" thing again. FFS. So, bought a brand new battery, put it in, works fine. On the button every time, no probs. Great.

Thursday morning:
Bastid thing does it again. FUCK. I know the battery is good so i don't bother charging it this time. Get home in the afternoon, fires up, no issues!?! What?!

Keep trying, keeps starting. Good. But then, after leaving it a couple of hours, it starts kkrrchkk'ing again. Dammit.

But then i get it going by just blipping the start button once, really quickly, until there's a single short click, and it starts perfectly on the next try. Hmm.

My feeling is it's probably the starter motor, but the repeated kkrrchkk'ing makes me wonder if it could be electronics. Could it be that when it stops, it's stopping in the same position, which is shorting/earthing, and so the blipping makes it come to rest in a different place..and therefore has more ooomph before it gets to the dodgy bit? Or something else?

If i get time, i plan to take out the motor at the weekend, pull it apart and see if i can see any issues with the brushes/armature that might be causing it, but as it looks like it might be a bit of an arse of a job, hoping someone has had a similar experience of the issue, and can maybe advise a better/easier fix? Or even confirm that it will be the starter motor..?

Cheers, ears.
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A Guide To Powerbands

[jaffa90]

What age / mileage?
You say it`s ok after charging remotely so is the bike charging the battery?

[Mr Hammers]

It's a 2008, 24k on the clock.

Yes, it seems to be charging ok. And once it's been running it'll start no problem. It, like me, just doesn't seem to like mornings.

edit: I read somewhere that ST's have some sort of a cutout if the battery is below a certain level of charge (which i can't find now), so i wonder if that is kicking in needlessly if the battery isn't 100% full..?
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A Guide To Powerbands

[Polarbear]

Triumph had issues with the sprag clutch on some models. A low battery was muted to be the cause in many cases.

However I'm pretty sure the Street triple doesn't suffer particularly from that problem and having never had the problem myself, I'm not sure what the symptoms are although triumph rat forum suggests it's more of a clunk.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[jaffa90]

""""""Yes, it seems to be charging ok. """""
It may not be good enough to store in the battery,
you should check all with a multi/meter.
That means before starting,when cranking,after starting and any drainage when stopped.

[BusterGonads]

[Easy-X]

Battery swapped so...

Is it actually charging properly? After that it's either the starter motor or the sprag clutch. Remote possibility: bad earth somewhere or iffy starter switch.

Be nice to hear it if you can link us a video sometime
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Mr Hammers]

My bad, i should have mentioned, i did... 12.8v ignition off, 13.7 engine running at tickover, very brief initial drop to 11/10 when cranking. Both old and new batteries are holding their charge. Didn't want to disturb the neighbours with a steady 5k rpm test, but i'm fairly sure it's ok on the battery and charging side.

Also, the kkrrchkk is really quick... like how it usually sounds when starting up, just cutting off prematurely.

Just got home..and it works again, starts no problem, so i can't film what it's doing. The best way i can describe it though is this; imagine just hitting the start button but only for a second...and doing that at regular 2 second intervals.

If, or more likely when, it does it again i'll film it.

It's got to be either the SM, or some weird electronic thing going on, or possibly a sprag clutch issue, but i'm hoping it really isn't that.

Depending on work tomorrow, i might have a go at the SM and see how it looks.
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A Guide To Powerbands

[Sister Sledge]

This might sound silly but is the actual starter button on the bars clean inside and working properly. It's just from your last description that's all.
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CCM 404 DS

[Mr Hammers]

No, it's a good question..i thought it might be that myself. The reason i don't think it is though, is that the length of the initial attempt to start, and the gap in between each are pretty precise...it's not at all random, like how you'd expect an iffy button to be.
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A Guide To Powerbands

[Pigeon]

Symptoms are exactly the same as Arry's KTM (wouldn't start, just cranked, sometimes did start but then wouldn't in the evening, but did the next morning. Then he figured if you spammed the button rather than held it down, it fired).

All was resolved by a new battery.....albeit only briefly until the battery terminal vibrated loose. But after that was done up, all good.

But you have a new battery.....

[Pigeon]

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

Have you checked the wires going to starter motor are clean/have good contact. good earth etc?
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Pictorgraphicalfantastical

[Mr Hammers]

[jaffa90]

Ok if your happy with the charging system, next thing i would check is safety cut out switches, you should have a kill switch but do you have to pull the clutch before starting?
You could check the voltage to the starter motor relay switch when pressing the starter button, also bypassing / bridging the switch terminals with heavy duty wire just to hear if you have the same noise on the starter motor providing that terminal is clean.

[Robby]

11 years old and 24k miles. So its the age when things start to go wrong, and the mileage where some things are wearing out.

Easy bit to check first, starter solenoid. I would just replace it, they're very cheap. If there is also a starter relay, it may be due a replacement with a generic item. That is a particular problem for Harleys, where the relays just fail after a decade. They are also very cheap.

I have also had similar trouble with worn out brushes in the starter motor. They shouldn't be worn out at that mileage, but it is possible and it does cause problems that will have replacing expensive parts hunting the problem, when the only thing wrong is a tenner's worth of carbon brush.

Also worth checking connections and cables for corrosion, condition and tightness. Crusty earthing points, loose or damaged battery cables. The sort of thing where it will carry electricity, but cause problems when you're trying to put a lot of current through it.

[Mr Hammers]

Well...this problem is currently the least of my problems now... Started ok this morning, so took her out for a celebratory ride...

On the way home there's suddenly a muted grinding sound. Despite being in gear I've no drive. I can go up and the box but no drive in any gear. Arses.

The only good thing is I've broken down right outside a pub, and luckily for my breakdown cover policy, 5 miles from home and not 4.

It's either clutch or gearbox, and possibly connected to my previous issues.

Oh well. Fuck it. I'm off for a pint.
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A Guide To Powerbands

[Meatybeaty]

Maybe time to look at your starter clutch and your front sprocket

[Mr Hammers]

[Hong Kong Phooey]

[Sister Sledge]

Avoid the RAC like the plague. They recovered my car once but refused to take me too! I was literally left to look for a f*cking hotel in that city.
Long story short they paid out for all my expenses after 6 weeks of hassle but f*ck them.
They use the RAC name but bring in contractors. I suppose they all do but the RAC and me? Nope.
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CCM 404 DS

[Mr Hammers]

The RAC membership was included in the insurance (Bennetts), and depending how they react to my complaint (although still haven't actually got round to it yet..) then i'll decide whether i bother with them again next year. To be fair, when i got a puncture earlier in the year, they were there in less than 10 minutes. Cheers for the recommendations, if i do get it separately then i'll probably go with one of the ones suggested.

Anyway...update on the issues...

Thankfully the lost drive problem was in fact a very simple one. The front sprocket had worked it's way off the shaft. That was it. (Good call MeatyBeaty!) Christ knows how...i know i torqued it up properly and fitted the retaining washer as i always do when i changed the chain at the beginning of this year. All i can think is that the bent over tab bit snapped off or something. Still can't figure out it would have done so though. Just going to keep an eye on it from now on. Never had that before though. Oh, and a new nut was nearly £3...ok...but the washer was nearly a tenner!! It's only a bit of pressed steel ffs!

Just glad (and that's an understatement) that it wasn't the clutch or worse, the gearbox. Obviously i would've gone down the tried and tested BCF route of welding it directly on, but i was out of gas on the mig...

As far as the starting issue goes...i searched and read up on everything relating to it that i could find, and eventually found that some people had the exact same issue on their Triumphs too (not Triples, it was a another model but i can't remember which now). One guy even took it to Triumph themselves, to see if they could figure it out. As it worked flawlessly all the time they had it, they couldn't work out what it was either.

Had intended to pull the starter motor out a couple of weekends ago, as that, apart from some electronic cause, was the only thing left i hadn't fully checked. The relay seemed to be ok when tested, but that of course was when it started working again. But, as the problem completely disappeared for nearly two weeks by then, i left it alone and hoped it had somehow sorted itself out.

Someone else who had the same problem thought it might be connected to putting the side stand down when still running and in gear (but after a while worked perfectly again), and as i have a vague recollection of doing the same thing fairly recently, was hoping it might just be that.

For the last week or so, and over the weekend and the weekend before when it was used a lot, it was fine. No sign of it at all. Until....this morning. Why does it always and only do it when i'm about to go to work?!

Left it charging through the day as all the attempts had drained it a bit, and surprise surprise, it worked fine again when i got home. If it does it tomorrow, which i bet it fucking does, i've got a 12v car battery ready to jump directly to the relay. See if that works.

Ordered another starter motor off fleabay, £103, which should arrive later this week. I'll swap it over, take the old one apart and see if there's anything obviously wrong with it, and if not, or it's something minor, fix it and chuck it back on fleabay for the same money.

Hundred quid isn't too bad, considering that a repair kit is over £70 anyway, and a new motor is around £400. Assuming that it works, of course...
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A Guide To Powerbands

[Polarbear]

Good that it wasn't anything serious with the drive. TBH I have never heard of that being a problem with stripples. Well known Fazer issue but not with Triumphs.

I expect (as a guess) you somehow snapped off the locking tab when doing up the nut. Obviously done properly it's impossible for the nut to come loose. Still, as long as you haven't fcuked the threads all is OK.

I have no idea with your starting problems though. I never had any issues with my Street triple which of course is absolutely of no help to you

Good luck.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Meatybeaty]

[Polarbear]