Buying and Selling motorbikes

Cookiemonster... · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 28 Oct 2018 Karma :

Can I make a living doing this? I want to make a decent amount of money doing this on the side at least. I've got a lots and lots of tools- more than enough for working with bikes(abba equipment and all that) but I only have experience as an amateur mechanic working on my own.
I was thinking of getting bikes from auctions like Copart. I've seen as an example this Africa Twin which is a cat B and 26k miles and front end damage. https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/44627479
It says the retail value is 7000 but I know it won't reach that. It looks like the front end is bent. Say I don't know how to fix it and have to go to a professional mechanic, how much profit do you think I can make?
I would please appreciate some advice on this specific example, how I should choose a bike, good mechanics to go to if I can't do something myself and just doing this whole thing in general whether it's a good idea or not.
Edit: What about for parts? how many times more valuable is a bike in parts as opposed to whole?

Shaft · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :

The first thing to note is that Cat B is a breaker, ie it shoudn't go back on the road. - the ad indicates there is no V5 and the DVLA have become much more switched on to not issuing V5s for Cat A/B vehicles, so I would assume you aren't going to get one.

Next it says unless it specifically states otherwise (and it doesn't) assume it's a non runner - if you can't get it running, that makes the single most valuable part of the bike virtually worthless.

That's potentially a big project for someone asking the sort of questions you are, I would be giving that a big swerve and starting with something more straightforward.
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Teflon-Mike · tl;dr Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :

The thought occurs, 'NO' simply.
Reasoning goes something like, if you are buying from auction, anything you 'win' will have first, only got to auction after a fair few folk with much more know how and a lot better contacts have deemed it Beyond Economical Repair... and b) you will have had to pay not just more than they would but also more than a lot of more clued up optimists that hope to get a 'cheap' fixer-upper....
Defeatist idea that if anything is beyond you, taking it to a pai9d pro, then adds more weight to the idea you dont have enough know-how to either spot candidates you coule more likely fix up, or fix them more cheaply...
But then the 'Paddy' argument that 'other folk' can and do if not make a living, at least make a profitable hobby from it, over=rides that and chucks you back in the frey on wing and a preyer of chance...
In short.. Yes and No... nut the business plan needs more work....
I wouldn't stake the day job on it, though.... and I dont have one!
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Cookiemonster... · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 28 Oct 2018 Karma :

Ok then it'll have to be Cat Ns then that I buy. There are plenty of CatN's at auction and they run more than fine with only structural damage and they surely can't be uneconomical. I think I can fix them myself for sure.
Also there's been no mention of selling the whole thing for parts even if it's cat B or worse... Are there parts websites which can calculate how much a bike/car will be when sold in parts? (there are plenty with diagrams of the vehicle and price of each part but any with a function which can sum it all up?) I think I'm going to try fixing cat Ns and selling anything else for parts if I can't fix (Cat N's included). Is this a better idea do you think?

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

For breaking to sell for parts, IMO you'd be better off buying second hand bikes in good condition rather than write offs.

Use eBay to work out what the parts from a particular bike should sell for. Complete set of undamaged fairings, tank, footpeg hangers, engine, frame with v5, forks, front brakes, subframe, clipons and the wheels with discs are all parts which will sell quickly and easily for popular sports bikes. Expect to have things like the swingarm kicking around in your garage for a while. Laughing

"There are plenty of CatN's at auction and they run more than fine with only structural damage and they surely can't be uneconomical"

I wouldn't count on it. Laughing

Rob Fzs · World Chat Champion Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :

the warranty repairs usually soaks anything up
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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

If you have to ask, you probably won't.
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Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

I think it can be done, although not if you're a straight-down-the-middle sort of guy.

Take that Africa Twin, for example. Before I even clicked the ad, I assumed people were bidding silly money for an old wreck (the way "salvage" basket cases often sell for more than intact bikes on Ebay, perhaps because of bulk buyers and shill bidders). I look and check, and yes, someone has apparently bid £1300 for that bike. It will probably go much higher. But why?

As others have stated, a Cat B cannot go back on the road. Or can it? The bike could be broken for parts, the parts being stored in someone's garage and sold piece by piece over years. That's one way to profit, but it's no way to "run a business". The other is to put it back on the road. How? Well, find a bare frame with V5 (set aside at least £250 for this) and for some broken parts such as fork work, mudguard, etc. (set aside another £250 for these).

That's a lot of work and time and expense, and you're going in blind. You might not even find a 2017 Africa Twin bare frame with V5 for sale.

Just speculating here, but the realistic way to turn that bike into profit must be to strip it down, make good use of an angle grinder and welder to get rid of the VIN, get a fake frame stamp made up in an EU country, and then re-register it here as an "import" even though it never left these shores. Something along those lines. Criminal stuff.

Stalk · Brolly Dolly Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Karma :

If it was easy, a lot more people would be doing it. It will cease to become fun and become a business. With all the associated cost, red tape, and jokers who want something for nothing.

Cookiemonster... · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 28 Oct 2018 Karma :

Criminal stuff is not the one. There must be more intelligent ways than that route.
The way I see it SOMEBODY is buying these bikes at auction. And the only purpose must be to make a profit if not ride it since they would otherwise buy a rideable one from gumtree/ebay/dealer.

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Cookiemonster... · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 28 Oct 2018 Karma :

Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

People could be buying them because they want a project bike, or because they do periodic bulk buys and take them over to Europe, e.g. once a month in a truck (not with criminal intent, but simply because people can fix them up and re-register them cheaply there).

I have heard of Polish people (in the early days, when they first started coming here) doing cheap work in people's houses, outfitting bathrooms, etc. and taking the (used!) toilets, basins and baths in their vans back to Poland. They used to tell the homeowner that they were going to dump these items, but no, they either installed them in their own homes in Poland, or sold them in Poland. They were always going across the Channel so it made sense to do this. Now those guys are rich. I don't think VAT ever hoved into their view on the way there.

There's always a grey area in business though. I've never heard of anyone who makes a living buying and fixing crapped-out bikes and then selling them for a profit. However, I know of mechanics who don't ask questions (e.g. "do you really own this moped") and who prefer to be paid in cash.

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Riejufixing · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :

P. · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

Nope.

SirFallalot · Trackday Trickster Joined: 25 Oct 2018 Karma :

Cookiemonster... · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 28 Oct 2018 Karma :

£4k investment on the 2006 new model R6 gives a £1500 profit on my excel spreadsheet. I can take the whole bike apart in a day but all the bits and bobs will all sell over a matter of months so I can't reinvest that in more bikes sad times Sad

1.5k profit per bike is not too bad though. I think I may go for the older model of all these sportsbikes... the older parts are the first to be listed and more of them and the initial purchase is way lower.
that would be a 5.5k profit and no investment Twisted Evil

if I just nicked the damn thing though. I see why people steal bikes now Laughing

I was watching police interceptors and one of them from the traffic unit said for a really expensive audi that was stolen by car thieves I think worth 50k+ : they steal them and they sell the parts for 10x original value so 500k+. surely he must be talking total shit? That must be too good to be true right? That can't happen for any vehicle?? otherwise you'd just steal two or three initially and then go legit wouldn't you so no more risk on your part and only slightly less profit at 9x (minus the inital legit investment)

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

The vast majority of parts won't take months to sell.

Riejufixing · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :

Riejufixing · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :

Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

1198 · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Jan 2013 Karma :

Why don’t you start small and try it, minimum investment cash?
I’d suggest eBay item number 401866030701 for a first time?
On a more serious note I’d say that the idea could work but you need to be able to get the bikes cheaply. I mean really cheap, word of mouth, friend of friend who’s dropped it / crashed it and just wants rid.
eBay and gumtree seems to be quite highly priced - probably through people doing much the same as you propose I’d imagine.
As an example there was One and a half BMW C1 scooter things on there over the weekend that sold for nearly £800 despite seeming to be a make one from two type idea. A decent one, running, makes just a couple of hundred more from what I’ve seen...
If you choose to break bikes bear in mind the bits that you can’t sell because they’re buggered and the reason the bike was sold - maybe front forks, wheel, mudguard, whatever, are the bits that would most likely be most in demand. You may end up with a lot of stuff that Boone needs. Try as an example getting a Ducati Monster front wheel. They are rare - the ones that I saw were all ‘ distorted - may be able to be straightened’ yet rear wheels are plentiful.

SirFallalot · Trackday Trickster Joined: 25 Oct 2018 Karma :

adam277 · Spanner Monkey Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Karma :

Start small.
Scooters and 125s are always in high demand.
Most look like complete crap due to being dropped a million times but panels are cheap and so is servicing.

I'd probably start with accident damaged scooters and see if you have the patience for it.
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