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Rear Ended & Insurance Woes

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Boxing
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Rear Ended & Insurance Woes Reply with quote

Hi all, got into a fender bender someone went into me in my cage at 40MPH.

Wrote my car off pretty much, bumper is hanging off and the likes.

My insurance rang me today and said if they can't recover 100% of costs from the third party insurer, they'll take my no claims bonus, for an accident I'm not at fault for. I was at a red light, the light went green and as I pulled off I got hit at probably 40MPH. Driver reckons their foot "slipped off the pedal." Rolling Eyes

They're also saying I don't have courtesy car cover, but if a car isn't roadworthy I should be given a hire vehicle no matter what according to a body shop I visited. And they shouldn't of never said anything about taking my no claims for a non-fault accident. The body shop also suggests using a third party company to handle my claim.

What should I do? Proceed with my insurer handling the claim, or is the 100% of costs a load of nonsense and all insurers spout that threat?

Of course, I'm a young driver and a claim on me for the next 5 years along with my loss of NCD will probably see me without a cage.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Re: Rear Ended & Insurance Woes Reply with quote

Boxing wrote:
My insurance rang me today and said if they can't recover 100% of costs from the third party insurer, they'll take my no claims bonus, for an accident I'm not at fault for. I was at a red light, the light went green and as I pulled off I got hit at probably 40MPH. Driver reckons their foot "slipped off the pedal." Rolling Eyes

How long ago? Have you sent evidence to your insurer in the form of pictures (even Google map satellite images), with any witnesses at all, and quoted your rear-ender's words?

If your insurer can get the £££ back from the other, i.e. it's the other friver's fault, and not 50:50 or something, you won't lose your NCD.

I am unsure why using a third party to handle your claim would give any benefit.

If you've got "free legal advice" with your cover, you could try calling them up; you might get some sense, but IMO you'll get a very junior legal entity who'll be as much good as something that isn't very useful. Still, you never know, and it should be "free".
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a no fault discount. It's a no claims discount. they can and do withdraw it at a whim.

However, if the third party is responsible for the accident and you suffer a loss as a result, you can claim it back off them.

You will have to declare the accident for 5 years even if you weren't at fault. They will probably load you for it but it's very hard to prove they have and by how much. Make sure it is properly recorded as a non-fault because it's amazing what can be entered in their database.

Insurance companies LOVE 50:50 claims because they get to fuck over both people. They will try to get you to agree to it because they are all theiving fuckers. However, you were hit in the rear by a third party who openly admits to having done so. As such, they are totally at fault. "Only a cunt hits the car in front." His foot slipping off a pedal does not in any way reduce his liability for the accident he caused. It's an explanation, not an exscuse. What he's actually done there is admit he was at fault by admitting to running into the back of you while not fully in control of his vehicle.

They've tried that with me too "Oh, the other driver denies liability because he was flashed out by another car." *pregnant pause waiting for me to say something*. "So he's admitted doing an illegal U-turn in the middle of the road without looking where he's going then? That should make my claim simpler.".

In short. They are trying to get you to accept some liability so they can fuck you both over. Don't. Play hardball. 100% liability on his part of see them in court.

If you don't think they are handling the case properly, you can go get fucked over by a claims handling company instead. They are all robbing bastards.

Or, you could potentially totty up what it's cost you and directrly persue the other driver for your costs through the courts. That really puts the shitters up them. After all, your claim is NOT with his insurance company, or your one. It's with him. He carries insurance to cover him for said liability but that's between him and them. They shit bricks when a summons lands on the doorstep. If it was me, that's what I'd do. Refuse to deal with his insurance company and persue the third party directly for my damages and leave it to him to claim it back off his insurance.

However, what I would do is not necessarily what you should do. I have cost myself a lot of money being "in the right" before today.

Remember, insurance companies are not in the business of paying out money, they are in the business of making a profit for their shareholders. You are the product, not the customer.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Re: Rear Ended & Insurance Woes Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

How long ago? Have you sent evidence to your insurer in the form of pictures (even Google map satellite images), with any witnesses at all, and quoted your rear-ender's words?

If your insurer can get the £££ back from the other, i.e. it's the other friver's fault, and not 50:50 or something, you won't lose your NCD.

I am unsure why using a third party to handle your claim would give any benefit.

If you've got "free legal advice" with your cover, you could try calling them up; you might get some sense, but IMO you'll get a very junior legal entity who'll be as much good as something that isn't very useful. Still, you never know, and it should be "free".


The crash happened late evening Saturday. I filled out the incident claim process on Sunday. They contacted me today about 4pm.

I sent them plenty of pictures and even pictures from the crash scene. They don't know what category it will be, but it's a write off.

They're going to have a solicitor ring me soon and Enterprise have rang but I was out and couldn't speak at 19:30.

They asked me what the person said at the scene, which I repeated what they said and they said it sounds like a non-fault collision, I was stopped at a red light, it turned green, I engaged first gear and began lifting the clutch as I was impacted. But what people say on the phone and then say to their insurer is a complete different thing.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
It's not a no fault discount. It's a no claims discount. they can and do withdraw it at a whim.

However, if the third party is responsible for the accident and you suffer a loss as a result, you can claim it back off them.

You will have to declare the accident for 5 years even if you weren't at fault. They will probably load you for it but it's very hard to prove they have and by how much. Make sure it is properly recorded as a non-fault because it's amazing what can be entered in their database.

Insurance companies LOVE 50:50 claims because they get to fuck over both people. They will try to get you to agree to it because they are all theiving fuckers. However, you were hit in the rear by a third party who openly admits to having done so. As such, they are totally at fault. "Only a cunt hits the car in front." His foot slipping off a pedal does not in any way reduce his liability for the accident he caused. It's an explanation, not an exscuse. What he's actually done there is admit he was at fault by admitting to running into the back of you while not fully in control of his vehicle.

They've tried that with me too "Oh, the other driver denies liability because he was flashed out by another car." *pregnant pause waiting for me to say something*. "So he's admitted doing an illegal U-turn in the middle of the road without looking where he's going then? That should make my claim simpler.".

In short. They are trying to get you to accept some liability so they can fuck you both over. Don't. Play hardball. 100% liability on his part of see them in court.

If you don't think they are handling the case properly, you can go get fucked over by a claims handling company instead. They are all robbing bastards.

Or, you could potentially totty up what it's cost you and directrly persue the other driver for your costs through the courts. That really puts the shitters up them. After all, your claim is NOT with his insurance company, or your one. It's with him. He carries insurance to cover him for said liability but that's between him and them. They shit bricks when a summons lands on the doorstep. If it was me, that's what I'd do. Refuse to deal with his insurance company and persue the third party directly for my damages and leave it to him to claim it back off his insurance.

However, what I would do is not necessarily what you should do. I have cost myself a lot of money being "in the right" before today.

Remember, insurance companies are not in the business of paying out money, they are in the business of making a profit for their shareholders. You are the product, not the customer.


I ain't taking anything less than 100% liability on him and will be very adamant about it!

I was rear ended at a red light, where I was stopped for approximately 10 seconds before he showed up and hit me when the light turned green. All of my brake lights work and pictures have been submitted from the collision scene.

I don't understand how they can try and make me take any liability for a rear ender. Especially whilst sat at a red light. The guy hit me at easily 40MPH, I think he was really on his phone, he came out with it in his hand.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing wrote:
I don't understand how they can try and make me take any liability for a rear ender.

I *suspect* that it's a "standard thing to say just in case", rather than (currently) trying to pin some of it on you.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 02 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Boxing wrote:
I don't understand how they can try and make me take any liability for a rear ender.

I *suspect* that it's a "standard thing to say just in case", rather than (currently) trying to pin some of it on you.


I'll be telling them right away on the phone if they try and pin 1% of liability on me.

I'll happily see them in court. Thumbs Up
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P.
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PostPosted: 08:05 - 03 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't have even told my insurer. I'd have taken their deets, called their insurers with the facts.

Then again, I enjoy the hassle of insurance Laughing
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 03 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per Paddy, this actually has nothing to do with your insurance company. I would (and have previously) contacted the other parties insurance company directly and not dealt with my insurance company at all.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 03 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you are rear ended, a bit of legislation kicks in called "Strict Liability"

What this means is that anyone who runs into the rear of another vehicle will be held responsible unless...... The defendant (other side) can prove that the driver in front did something that caused or contributed to the crash for example brake testing or a crash for cash scam.

You are claiming against the other side. You do not even need to involve your own insurers (although it helps if they offer their services) but in case law, this is a non faut crash on your part and any excess will be claimed from the other side under the uninsured losses element along with any mitigated and justifiable costs such as a hire car.

If you need professional help (not me as I only deal with injury) I can put you in touch with someone who can help.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 03 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:
When you are rear ended, a bit of legislation kicks in called "Strict Liability"

What this means is that anyone who runs into the rear of another vehicle will be held responsible unless...... The defendant (other side) can prove that the driver in front did something that caused or contributed to the crash for example brake testing or a crash for cash scam.

You are claiming against the other side. You do not even need to involve your own insurers (although it helps if they offer their services) but in case law, this is a non faut crash on your part and any excess will be claimed from the other side under the uninsured losses element along with any mitigated and justifiable costs such as a hire car.

If you need professional help (not me as I only deal with injury) I can put you in touch with someone who can help.


Further to my previous generalisation, TC is one of the few non-thieving bastards in the insurance claims industry. Thumbs Up
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 03 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
As per Paddy, this actually has nothing to do with your insurance company. I would (and have previously) contacted the other parties insurance company directly and not dealt with my insurance company at all.


My insurance company won't want to lose any money, so it's in their best interests to protect me from holding any liability. Whereas his insurance doesn't want to pay out, as is often the case.

My friend was rear ended and his insurance told him not to accept anything or even speak to anyone representing the other insurance company, as they'll deal with the whole claim. My insurance has now put me into touch with another firm a solicitor company as I had free legal advice etc added to my policy when I took it out, and they're dealing with my claim aspect, my insurance company is just dealing with the vehicle category of write off etc.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. Thumbs Up

I've also made sure my insurance and solicitor people are aware it wasn't a rolling shunt, he failed to stop in time and hit me. I was stationary.

Still no courtesy car, which is annoying and my insurance company haven't rang me back regarding what cat my car will be declared as.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 04 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing wrote:


I've also made sure my insurance and solicitor people are aware it wasn't a rolling shunt, he failed to stop in time and hit me. I was stationary.

Still no courtesy car, which is annoying and my insurance company haven't rang me back regarding what cat my car will be declared as.


Whether it was a rolling shunt or not makes no difference, the fact is that you were hit up the rear, end of. The driver who hit you is liable period.

With an insurance appointed law firm just be aware that the majority will not place any real urgency on your case because they are on fixed costs of about £500 per case, and so yours will be towards the bottom of their priority cases. Make sure you keep on top of them as some are much better than others, and if you are in the hands of a number of potential insurance owned law firms, you may still be waiting this time next year for a result.

Do not forget that you can also claim for loss of amenity, all out of pocket expenses such as public transport, loss of earnings, , just keep a record of everything you spend. You will be surprised how quickly t mounts up.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 05 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:

Whether it was a rolling shunt or not makes no difference, the fact is that you were hit up the rear, end of. The driver who hit you is liable period.

With an insurance appointed law firm just be aware that the majority will not place any real urgency on your case because they are on fixed costs of about £500 per case, and so yours will be towards the bottom of their priority cases. Make sure you keep on top of them as some are much better than others, and if you are in the hands of a number of potential insurance owned law firms, you may still be waiting this time next year for a result.

Do not forget that you can also claim for loss of amenity, all out of pocket expenses such as public transport, loss of earnings, , just keep a record of everything you spend. You will be surprised how quickly t mounts up.


My insurance is writing my car off, they're dragging their feet with that and refusing to collect my car, they're insistent on writing it off just from pictures. Rolling Eyes They said the law firm is just dealing with my uninsured aspect of the claim, hire car (that I didn't receive) and loss of earnings etc.

It shouldn't take up to a year with a rear end shunt, surely? My insurance has mentioned if they can't recover all costs they'll take my no claims. With three months left on this policy I don't really want to take a new policy out next year with zero no claims discount. My friend had a similar accident, actually on the same road, just in the opposite direction. His claim had all settled within 8 weeks, with a courtesy car supplied second day of his crash. And no issues with his NCD.

If I can claim back every £ of getting a rental out myself, I'll just do that.

The law firm has said not to speak to the other drivers insurance and to decline any offers they issue me.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 05 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

TC may correct me if I'm wrong but in my experience it doesn't hurt to badger the f*ck out of the third parties insurance company, as i wouldn't trust yours to do a decent job.
I mean phone them everyday, make a real nuisance of yourself, keep asking firmly but politely) when it will be resolved. I was sideswiped by a German Lorry driver some years back and got on first name terms with the a lady at Allianz.
I could have had my insurers arrange the repairs and then make the claim back but I figured why the hell should i claim against mine. There's already too many snouts in this particular trough.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 05 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing wrote:


It shouldn't take up to a year with a rear end shunt, surely? My insurance has mentioned if they can't recover all costs they'll take my no claims. With three months left on this policy I don't really want to take a new policy out next year with zero no claims discount. My friend had a similar accident, actually on the same road, just in the opposite direction. His claim had all settled within 8 weeks, with a courtesy car supplied second day of his crash. And no issues with his NCD.

If I can claim back every £ of getting a rental out myself, I'll just do that.

The law firm has said not to speak to the other drivers insurance and to decline any offers they issue me.


On the first point, it all depends on which firm is handling your claim.

Remember, statute of limitation for damage only crashes is 6 years (unlike injury which is 3 years) and so they will be in no hurry.

Are you sure it is a law firm handling your case? Most insurers hand their damage claims to claims management companies who are not tied to regulations like law firms are.

The third party insurers should be talking to your solicitor only once they have received the statutory letter of claim.

Like I said, keep chasing them, make them earn their money, make sure they keep you in the loop.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 05 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:


On the first point, it all depends on which firm is handling your claim.

Remember, statute of limitation for damage only crashes is 6 years (unlike injury which is 3 years) and so they will be in no hurry.

Are you sure it is a law firm handling your case? Most insurers hand their damage claims to claims management companies who are not tied to regulations like law firms are.

The third party insurers should be talking to your solicitor only once they have received the statutory letter of claim.

Like I said, keep chasing them, make them earn their money, make sure they keep you in the loop.


They've written an e-mail to me stating they've sent the insurer in question my Claim Notification Form.

And my insurer has been in touch today and I've bought my vehicle back and can now resume driving it without the need of an MOT. However it needs to be repaired to manufacturer standards. It's a Category N.

It's a law firm the name suggests that my insurer put me into contact with.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 05 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxing wrote:


It's a law firm the name suggests that my insurer put me into contact with.


Therein lies 99% of your problem.

Good luck
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 06 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C wrote:


Therein lies 99% of your problem.

Good luck


Thanks for the information and help. Thumbs Up

Bit of luck it gets resolved pronto.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 11 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today they let me know that the third party's insurance has accepted liability. So should be resolved shortly. Thanks for the help BCF, much appreciated. Thumbs Up
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 11 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news but don't count your chickens just yet. Sad

You've still got the fun and games of agreeing the value of your car.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 11 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Good news but don't count your chickens just yet. Sad

You've still got the fun and games of agreeing the value of your car.


Already paid me out for the car, my insurer paid (and waived my excess of £800 as I wasn't at fault) £1,100 because I kept it. It's an old banger, but I can get a new bumper for £20 and paint it for pennies. Did bodywork on the car 2 years ago when my brother owned it, and had way too much. Luckily I kept it. Thumbs Up

They valued it at £100 more than I paid for it the day before the crash, but removed 30% as I kept it from the value.

Category N so pretty much worthless resale value, so I'll just drive it until it has a serious fault and then sell it on for someone to fix or scrap it. At this point it's a cheap car for a run around the mill and not really care about.
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ride_to_die
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 12 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent result.
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