Looking for some expertise here please

[yamahaha]

Hi ( again )

Sorry bit long.

Ive had to sign up under a new name as I cant recall my old one

Wondering if some of you good people can give me some advice here please?

So I've got a 2009 ybr125 EFI version that I have had from new. Had been reg. serviced and looked after for a 125.

So a few months ago the odd time I would come out and go to do an electric start and the ignition light would dim. Turn it off and on again for a sec ( I work in IT ) and next time it would work fine. Used to get the odd cut out when at light and pull away. Again restarted on the button

Move on a few weeks and this time it didnt start so used the kick start and though it was the battery. 9 years old so replaced it. Been fine till now.

I came out very early this morning and turned on the ignition. Everything went out like no battery was in there. Desperate to get to work I ended up bumping it. Apart from the EML light staying on a bit longer and the rev counter going to zero then flickering for 10 secs it drove in fine. As I was half awake thought I must have done something stupid.

Roll on this afternoon and I come out of work. The bike is dead, again like no battery. Have no choice but to kick start it. The rev counter starts jumping everywhere or zero. I try and drive off as I will look at it when I get home asap. Goes 300 yards then cuts out.

Spend next 2 hours with AA who thinks its the battery but as his own admission I dont know anything about bikes. Hes trying to charge my battery with a booster pack ( Im sure this will over charge it? ) Then hes now doing it direct from his van and booster for 10 mins.

Long story short again. Bike may start from kickstart or with booster applied but does run for more than a few feet.

Its now home but dead. But every so often springs to full life ( not started ) lights, flashers, horn everything works. But touch the electric start and its as dead as a dodo again even if you turn it off and on again. Also the EML light is flashing code 39 for a injector issue but Im not sure if this is getting caused by the rectifier or battery?

Really could do with some brains please?

Cheers.

[grr666]

I bought a new battery for my van recently completely unnecessarily when it turned out that actually the
100,000 mile old alternator was shot. Which then also needed replacing.
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[yamahaha]

Ok so this gets stranger ( I thought this happened earlier too but so so busy messing about with the AA man I wasnt sure.)

A few others have mentioned this over various pages.

So hour ago bike was dead, dead, dead ( batt showed 12.5 v whilst off ) the only signs of life were if you attached the trickle charger to the battery. Then it worked as normal but the EML light kept flashing a fuel injector fault code.

So I have just gone out to the bike and turned the key. All alive but EML FI code keeps flashing tried this 3 times and does same. Have run hand all round the electrics no change. But this time I tried the kick start. EML light goes off as it should. Everything works like the batteries in prime shape! I try flashers, horn even heated grips..perfect. Head lamp stays bright no matter if revving or no. Perfect. I shook the bike hard side to side. Bounced it. ran hand round all electrics. Absolutley no issues. No rev flicker, nowt. Whilst running batt at 12.5/13v all the time even when turning things off and on.

Did this same sequence 3 times......perfect each time and same results.

( now that must have been the equivilant of the bump start this morning. )

So this time I turn on the ignition again and its ready in the same state. BUT the second I hit the electric starter the electric go out?

Of and on again, the dash lights flicker as well and headlights then it sort of looks ready to start again. Press the electric start and all dask goes out but I can hear a tapping from under the petrol tank for 8 or 9 secs.

So odd

[yamahaha]

Right so in the time it took to write the above Ive gone out to the bike again ( its almost like it resets itself if left for a bit, ready to work if you use the kick starter method again ) and its flickering on the EML light/Neutral lights. The second I hit the electric start its like no battery and all dead again. I can still hear a few of these faint clicks.

So I put my voltmeter on the terminals and its at 0 volts

Tried on a diff battery and theres 10 volts or so there so its not the meter. Go back to the bike and theres 12.5v there again. Bizarre. Then I realised the bike was off still. I turn the ignition on and hey presto 0v on the meter. I can do this several times.

Its almost like once you try it on the electric start it nicks all the voltage/battery and the bike remains dead until its had a chance to clear whatever is going on.

Anyone any clues please?

[jaffa90]

I take it that you are checking the battery voltage at the terminals but is the battery connected to the bike?
Follow the battery leads for good connections.

[jaffa90]

Hold on your are posting to quick.
A 0 volt reading is impossible for a duff battery.

[yamahaha]

yes at terminals

as I say its deffo looking like something to do with this electric starter or seems to be?

never had any issues before.

even when the bikr is just switched on and looks ready to be kick started ( no flickering dash lights ) soon as I hit that electric starter. dead or flickering...

Does it draw massive amounts from the regulator/rectifier at this point? and that kills something temporarily?

[yamahaha]

sorry mate.

been on the go since 4.30am so a tad wired.

[yamahaha]

and testing whilst battery still connected to bike

[jaffa90]

"""""Does it draw massive amounts from the regulator/rectifier """""

No it`s the battery that stores charge (amps).

[yamahaha]

cant work this out then

when the bike is 'ready' eg all dash lights fully bright again and eml light comes on then goes off as it should everything seems to work perfect. I havent taken it in the road yet but but gave it loads off bouncing and side to side in case something was lose.

the only time it goes wrong is when you have it in a 'ready' state and hit the electric starter. its dead after that or near as dammit.

[jaffa90]

Ok, if your happy about the battery and connections then check the voltage to the starter relay switch when you press the starter button.
This heavy duty switch can give a clicking noise when the voltage (amps really) is low.

[yamahaha]

thanks for that.

will have to work out how to do this.

gonna catch up on some sleep now.

[WD Forte]

Diagnosing info given on forums can be like pulling teeth
and is best guess at best,
My guess is without seeing/getting me mitts on the bike
that it does have all the hall marks of an iffy ground connection.

I've done all manner of jobs on a guys 2010 ybr125 and checking cleaning ALL connectors fixed a lot of erratic electrical problems.
In fact It's usually my first job on any old bike.
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[yamahaha]

ok go out to the bike this morning and it looks dead on the dash when I turn on the ignition.

again I hear the faint 'clicking'

clicking stop and the dash springs back to life, kickstart it, runs perfect.

so thinking ( and I have very very basic knowledge of starters here ) that when I push the electric start it throws the solonoid? which engages the teeth which spin on the bike to start the engine.

so the reseting is either a spring or something else disengaing the starter solonoid again then the bikes fine.

whilst engaged or presing the electric start to try and engage it its either earthing out somewhere and hence appearing dead or as on my bike you cant get the starter to fire if the bikes running its doing something along those lines.

[Meatybeaty]

How old is your starter relay, also check out your Ignition switch and wires at the connector, make sure there's no crossover

[stinkwheel]

As above, I'd be having a good look at that ignition switch.

Particularly because of this:

[yamahaha]

starter relay would be original from 2009

ignition wise, the problem is only ever after I try and use the electric starter. that wouldnt explain the clicking?

[Meatybeaty]

Here you can see how the Main Switch, Starter Button and Starter Relay are in a circuit

[Easy-X]

It sounds like 2 separate issues:

1) Sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't

2) Once started it sometimes runs fine, sometimes cuts out down the road

The starting system on most bikes is usually pretty simple: battery, wiring, 30A fuse, starter switch (via ignition switch) starter relay and finally the starter itself. Trace through all these components in turn paying careful attention for any damaged wires and corroded contacts - including the fuse holder.

With regards to the clicking: is it the starter relay clicking or the starter motor? Clicking from the motor hints that not enough power is going through to engage the sprag.

On reliable running, IIRC the dancing rev counter is actually a diagnostic readout. Injector errors sound scary but I think in this situation it's more likely that the injector isn't powered correctly (which one would expect, given the story so far.)

Does sound like a degraded wiring/contacts issue. A bike might start and a contact and goes from low resistance to high resistance as current flows through it an warms things up.

Don't forget to check out basic things like clutch switches, shifter lights and kickstand cutouts!
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[yamahaha]

ok so the bikes in its ready to go mode so I start it on its kick starter, perfect. Go for a quick drive to get some petrol.

As I could see my chain was a bit loose ( i knew about this ) I thought I would pop in to the bike shop and get a quote to replace.

I tell him about this issue. He says battery. Told him its fairly new. So he does a voltage test seems fine. I tell him not to restart using the electric starter. We start it again via KS and it runs fine, he checks voltage he seems happy. I mention I think its something to do with the switch again. Turn off bike and try to start via switch. Bike dead. A minute later the bikes 'ready' again eg all the dash is bright. He puts battery booster pack straight onto starter motor. Engine starts fine. Do again. engine starts fine. So we dont think its the starter motor either.

Turn off bike to discuss chain.

I went back to bike and which is 'ready' forget and press electric starter button and dash starts flickering out. KS it and it runs enough to get me home but its erratic and rev counter all over the place.

So look at battery and terminal again. all is clean. look at positive to starter motor, its all in its rubber housing, nice any shiny.

However whenever, in this 'unready' state when I turn the bike on the battery voltage goes to zero, when bike ignition is off it at just under 12 volts if the engines not running.

Hellllllp

thanks.

[Easy-X]

You push the starter button and everything dies... kick start it and it's fine

Solution: disconnect the starter switch and just KS from now on

Seriously though it sounds like something is shorting to ground. If it were me I'd start disconnecting things...

The starter is at the end of the chain, so to speak. If you just disconnect that and leave everything else connected does it die when you press the button? Yes? Proceed to disconnecting the starter relay, test again... work your way back as far as you can.

<addendum> tape up / make safe any loose wires, I don't want you blowing up!
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[WD Forte]

I see your yellow dot is close to my red dot
I can look at it if you want ( pm'd you)
wont make promises that always invites failure
but will have a jolly good butchers to see if I can spot summat
overlooked.
I even have a YBR manual
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[yamahaha]

thanks.

ok so with the bike in its ready state eg all dash lights on and can kick start it ( I just did this and drove about 4 miles, ignition off then on and KS and it ran/started fine each time, several times )

Get back home

I connected the + battery terminal straight to the starter so as to bypass all wiring and started switch. Guess what, the bike dies again and takes a few minutes to recover ( eg the dash is flickering, the daytime running lights are flicking and you can hear this click which I believe now could be the fuel rail trying to prime, again this might tie in to the eml light flashing before to say bad injector )

So we wait for it to recover and after a few minutes it does ( Im touching nothing ) I just happened to nudge the horn and guess what bike dies then starts recovering ( so has same symptoms as using electric starter ) Now I presume the horns a big 'load' same as starter is a big 'load' when ignition gets turned on but not started.

So my question is? Is it possible for a new battery to show 12v but die as soon as you put a 'load' on it? and slowly recover.

[Lone-Wolf]