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O.E.M. Instructions or lack of.

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MCN
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: O.E.M. Instructions or lack of. Reply with quote

https://www.ioshmagazine.com/article/martin-baker-fined-ps11m-red-arrows-pilots-fatal-ejection-seat-failure

I was living in Hull when this tragic event happened.

Since MOD a lot of the details are or were eyes only. (It's sort of normal for that industry.)

The details and root cause are very interesting as far as maintenance procedures are concerned.

People really need to understand exactly what is expected of the equipment they work on and rely on.

£1.1 million is not much. I bet if it was in the US it would have been much more.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So an RAF technician caused this accident by overtightening the release shackle to the point it deformed and couldn't separate.

Manufacturer was fined because they were made aware that someone could overtighten it and didn't insert a phrase in the UK issue users manual telling them not to.

Crying shame.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
So an RAF technician caused this accident by overtightening the release shackle to the point it deformed and couldn't separate.

Manufacturer was fined because they were made aware that someone could overtighten it and didn't insert a phrase in the UK issue users manual telling them not to.

Crying shame.


Reading the article, I think that the shackle was sort of 'crimped' in it's location so required a lot more force to rotate into a position where it could pass through the stowing point.

The fact that the OEM didn't notify the RAF is shocking.

I just sent the article to our safety dept. I still see safety gear 'maintained' by bell-ends who do not understand what they are working on but just follow the OEM books.
Monkey See Monkey Do mentality.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Military engineers have a long history of overtightening stuff. The unofficial moto of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME) is "Tighten it 'till it strips them back it off half a turn so you don't get the blame.".

I'm not up on the units used. How much extra force did they actually put on the fastener to deform it so much it was no longer a sliding fit?

"technician overtightened the locknut on to the bolt of the drogue shackle to 1.5 threads."

So does that mean 1.5 turns too much? I wonder if there were instructions as to how tightly it SHOULD be done up to, either by angular tightening or torque. You'd have thought there would be a pretty strict specification in this regard with an application like that? I wouldn't be surprised to find there was and it was ignored. The additional advice being just that, additional.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the accident report a while ago. The overtightened bolt was the reason for non-deployment of the chute, but there was also an ineffective and/or badly-fitted safety pin in the ejection seat that meant the seat went off in the first place. From memory, the pre-flight check involves checking the ejection handle is secure - the errant locking pin allowed the handle to move enough to initiate the ejection. This should have been survivable but then exposed the over-tightened clamping bolt. Classic case of alignment of factors. Really sad loss and only 3 months after another Red Arrows fatality at Bournemouth.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Military engineers have a long history of overtightening stuff. The unofficial moto of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME) is "Tighten it 'till it strips them back it off half a turn so you don't get the blame.".

I'm not up on the units used. How much extra force did they actually put on the fastener to deform it so much it was no longer a sliding fit?

"technician overtightened the locknut on to the bolt of the drogue shackle to 1.5 threads."

So does that mean 1.5 turns too much? I wonder if there were instructions as to how tightly it SHOULD be done up to, either by angular tightening or torque. You'd have thought there would be a pretty strict specification in this regard with an application like that? I wouldn't be surprised to find there was and it was ignored. The additional advice being just that, additional.


The OEM could simply have 'engineered' out the chance of incorrect assembly by making the 'threaded' shackle pin and nut only able to thread together until tight against a shoulder on the pin. It could then be tight as fcuk but not crimp on the component it is fitted too.

In the pics it looks like they use a self-locking nut. Self locking nuts 'normally' must have some portion of thread poking out to ensure the locking part engages the full thread for security.

In our industry all shackles are four part. Shackle, Pin, Nut and Cotter.
They have recently further complicated this by demanding that we no longer use R-Clips, D-Rings or any other 'quick' security device. Now we have to use a Split Pin.
I disagree with this theory as I know from experience that split pins fail through work-hardening when repeatedly opened and closed. And they are also a hand injury risk or a risk of snagging clothing and anyone snagged is at risk of injury from being lifted with a load, lifting device or pulled off something and cause a fall.
No phuquer agrees with me.

R-Clips and D-Rings work fine and are easily reusable many times.
The only issue with them is that people misplace the retainers or simply don't bother to fit them. (To save time.) so the argument about split pins or D-rings becomes redundant.

I'm not privy to the logic of only using split pins.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 20 Sep 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

In our industry all shackles are four part. Shackle, Pin, Nut and Cotter.
They have recently further complicated this by demanding that we no longer use R-Clips, D-Rings or any other 'quick' security device. Now we have to use a Split Pin.
I disagree with this theory as I know from experience that split pins fail through work-hardening when repeatedly opened and closed. And they are also a hand injury risk or a risk of snagging clothing and anyone snagged is at risk of injury from being lifted with a load, lifting device or pulled off something and cause a fall.
No phuquer agrees with me.

R-Clips and D-Rings work fine and are easily reusable many times.
The only issue with them is that people misplace the retainers or simply don't bother to fit them. (To save time.) so the argument about split pins or D-rings becomes redundant.

I'm not privy to the logic of only using split pins.


A lockwired R-clip would be favourite in a critical/overhead application.

Specify a split pin, you'll get a rusty nail and someone effing and blinding about who's had their pliers.

They could also have retro-fitted a sleeve for the shackle pin on those seats. That would have the added effect of indicating if the jaws had been closed up by being unable to fit it.

I suspect your industry might be very closely related to my Dads old business. Does the name Red Rooster sound familiar?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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