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How would you vote in a general election tomorrow?

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Which party gets your vote?
Labour
15%
 15%  [ 17 ]
Conservatives
32%
 32%  [ 36 ]
Liberal Democrats
13%
 13%  [ 15 ]
Brexit Party
27%
 27%  [ 31 ]
SNP
5%
 5%  [ 6 ]
Green
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Change
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Plaid Cymru
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
DUP
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Independent
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 111

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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:


That's pretty much heading towards Communism isn't it?


Not really. Garaunteed minimum income. Not "Everyone gets the same income". You earn more than that, fine, you earn less than that, it gets topped-up.

Kind of like the dole was back in the 60's.

It turns out that while there are a few piss-takers who will take the excuse to sit and be paid for doing nothing, there will always be a few piss-takers and this system doesn't seem to make more of them.

The main thing is it's very easy to administer. It cuts out layers and layers of beaurocracy.
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Ribenapigeon
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Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:



I said nothing about the vote and I'm talking about benefit claimants.

which fall below your imagined threshold of worthiness to have the vote and be allowed to use the same currency as everyone else?

If you have a person that is incapable of running their life, you have a carer for them or you have them put in a situation where others can look after them. No one says this is demeaning. However if you have someone who patently can't manage the money they get from the state to live on, it's perceived as demeaning to put in place a system which will make sure they have food on the table and a roof over their head without just throwing more (of someone else's) money at them.

As far as the threshold, once they have proved they can't look after themselves with their benefit money and are coming back for extra bailouts then that should be the cut off point. The benefits system is a safety net. Nothing more. If they have too much pride to take food stamps AFTER proving they can't manage their benefits by spending on unnecessary items like previously mentioned high end TV then go find another way to fund their lifestyle.


Sorry I was forgetting that as a tax payer your automatically an expert on social service support for people.

However contrary to what the self appointed experts by way of being tax payers believe, supporting people who get into difficulties is not done by simply taking away their autonomy and doing things for them. Supporting people to become independant and responsible is and has been for decades the proper approach. The problem is the resources going towards such interventions is less and less available.
Polarbear wrote:


\oh, and they shouldn't be allowed to vote or procreate but that's another issue. Wink


Where do we stop in terms of tajing tbe vote away from people? Im sure from some people above you in society would deride the idea you should have a vote.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Universal income is a terrible idea. It would just reenforce the phenomenon of a child like dependant class of people who would never learn and properly develop adult personalities. Its a recipe for a personality disordered society and all the xhaos that brings. We would be better to simply subsidise jobs. Work gives people more than just an income it gives self estime and developes society.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


Kind of like the dole was back in the 60's.
.


When there was pretty much 100% job availabilty for those who wished to work, which really is what most people do want. Beinf inactive is unnatural for humans but we're in real danger of an automatically inactive society. Its a bad thing.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Okay, serious question now: why is the vote of some numpty with a sub-70s IQ and velcro on his trainers just as valuable as anyone else's?

Clearly the value of said numpty is low with regards other metrics e.g. work and pay. Or, if you want to dispense with capitalism, of low utility compared to someone capable of training as a doctor or engineer. But when it comes to political opinion he has been bestowed rights Evil or Very Mad

Personally I don't think you should be entitled to a vote until you've proved you have the responsibility and enough investment in society to have any say in how it is run (i.e. a meritocracy.)

Failing that, how about some sort of weighted proportional representation:

No job? You get a vote.
Job but claim benefits too? You get a vote + a 2nd preference vote
Job and not a burden to society? You get a vote + 2nd and 3rd preference... etc.

Don't ask me for an detail but the outcome should be less weight for those who are gratified by the mark on the voting paper coincidentally matching their own signature Laughing


Look up Thechnocrat movement on Wikipedia.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 05 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh dear:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50672611

Quote:
Three Members of the European Parliament have resigned from the Brexit Party to support Boris Johnson's deal with the EU.

Annunziata Rees-Mogg - sister of Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg - Lance Forman and Lucy Harris are all now backing the Conservatives.

They say voting for Mr Johnson's party at the general election is the way "to ensure Brexit gets delivered".

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage said he was "disappointed".


Based on the performance of the Euro Parliament Elections I admit I thought the TBP might shake things up a bit. No longer Sad

The worst aspect of a Tory landslide (or even a simple majority) will be 5 years of Boris looking very smug Evil or Very Mad
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 05 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


That's pretty much heading towards Communism isn't it?


Not really. Garaunteed minimum income. Not "Everyone gets the same income". You earn more than that, fine, you earn less than that, it gets topped-up.


Who would do the shit jobs if it meant all that happens is you are working for nothing because anything you earn will just get deducted from your basic allowance?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 05 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

Who would do the shit jobs if it meant all that happens is you are working for nothing because anything you earn will just get deducted from your basic allowance?


It turns out, this isn't a problem because most people have self-respect. Dossers will always be dossers, normal people are prepared to work for a living.

See how the trials come out.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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