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Storing a bike outdoors

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sapstar
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Hi guys, I am new to the forum and new to riding a bike in the UK. I had past riding experience for many years outside UK.

Recently cleared my CBT. Got my theory booked and planning to go for my full licence soon.

Once I get my license, I would like to buy Harley Davidson Street 750 or similar. My biggest problem is that I will have to store it on my drive. I have no access to my backyard unless I take the bike through the house which isn't practical.

I looked for options online to see if I can find a shed small enough to put it in a corner on my drive and found the below. Anyone use these or something similar for their bikes? If you know of any slightly bigger alternatives like 9x4 with wider door opening, please let me know.
https://www.asgardsss.co.uk/8x4-metal-garden-shed

Anyone uses these to store motorbikes? I have seen proper motorcycle sheds too with are too high to put in front of my property without planning permission, which I doubt will be approved.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would you get it in and out of that shed and over the lip at the bottom?

I presume, looking at your location, that this is for security rather than just protecting it from the elements?

Just buy a big enough standard steel shed and put it up. If its your property rather than rented you can do that as it isn't a permanent structure.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, I see the Street 750 isn't covered in chrome so that's a good thing.

I'd recommend a wooden shed as the metal box types can be sweat boxes if you were to put the bike away still hot.

Takes a bit of effort to keep a bike looking half decent in this country so a rinse down after riding over salted roads is recommended as is some sort of anti-corrosion spray. BTW WD-40 won't cut it.

Dig in a ground anchor then build the shed over it. That way it'll take the thieves just that bit longer should the worse happen.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:


I do recommend asgard sheds/storage, we've got 1 for our pushbikes on the drive, nice and secure, and waterproof as well. As others has said though, the lip could be a problem, but I'd suspect the width of the doors, coupled with it's depth is more likely to be a problem when manouvering the bike in and out..

How about this ?

https://www.gardenstreet.co.uk/sheds-garden-structures-c1/garden-buildings-c13/garages-c19/trimetals-protect-a-bike-garage-p2020/s3595?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8svsBRDqARIsAHKVyqEca1fv6k6_IJERVcdoXUKnSsBkpU9FUsb5Q0zhx_yy81W2kG8NdEAaAp1rEALw_wcB
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:

I do recommend asgard sheds/storage, we've got 1 for our pushbikes on the drive, nice and secure, and waterproof as well. As others has said though, the lip could be a problem, but I'd suspect the width of the doors, coupled with it's depth is more likely to be a problem when manouvering the bike in and out..

How about this ?

https://www.gardenstreet.co.uk/sheds-garden-structures-c1/garden-buildings-c13/garages-c19/trimetals-protect-a-bike-garage-p2020/s3595?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8svsBRDqARIsAHKVyqEca1fv6k6_IJERVcdoXUKnSsBkpU9FUsb5Q0zhx_yy81W2kG8NdEAaAp1rEALw_wcB


While that would do the job admirably. it's bloody expensive for what it is Shocked
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hedgehugger
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trimetal one being sold as a mobility scooter store is cheaper on the webby.

We've had a double Trimetal garage for 12 years, it even moved home with us. The metal is still in really good nick, one panel bent slightly when we put it back together after moving, but that was on us.
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:

Thanks everyone for your response.

I have seen this, but thought the planning permission would be a problem for that height so looking for shorter options. I don't see anyone else in my street have any sheds on the front, 8x4 would be a really good size and with the gas lift top. I was going to install a small wedge for the lip, but I thought the doors may be a problem too. So asking for recommendations.

There is an option which I thought was ideal, but don't see anyone selling it in the UK. I will have to
https://www.zweiradgarage.de/shop/die-zweiradgarage/produkt-zg-a/

I also called the seller from this listing who said he can get a custom 8x4 made with 4.5ft height and doors opening 7ft wide, but can't do the gas lift top.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorbike-storage-shed-Galvanised-Steel-FREE-DELIVERY-INSTALLATION/303210093771
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
thought the planning permission would be a problem for that height so looking for shorter options.

AFAIK you've got 2.5m, all else being compliant.

I started at: https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/mini-guide/outbuildings/0
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
sapstar wrote:
thought the planning permission would be a problem for that height so looking for shorter options.

AFAIK you've got 2.5m, all else being compliant.

I started at: https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/mini-guide/outbuildings/0


This doesn't apply for the front of the house, only at rear.
In the front I see a number of people using wooden boxes for bins and other small storage only. That's why looking for shorter options.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
In the front I see a number of people using wooden boxes for bins and other small storage only. That's why looking for shorter options.

Are you a top or a bottom?

sapstar wrote:
I don't see anyone else in my street have any sheds on the front

Outbuildings are not a permitted development forward of the principal elevation of the original house.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

This doesn't apply for the front of the house, only at rear.

Not having it on your driveway as in OP?
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 01 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

Not having it on your driveway as in OP?


Eh?? My drive is also at the front of the house, doesn't go down the side?
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 02 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

Not having it on your driveway as in OP?

My drive is in the front. No access to the back unless I take the bike through the house.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 02 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

Not having it on your driveway as in OP?

Eh?? My drive is also at the front of the house, doesn't go down the side?

That's a parking space, not a drive!
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 02 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

Not having it on your driveway as in OP?

My drive is in the front. No access to the back unless I take the bike through the house.

Where did you find the idea that a low structure is OK?

Perhaps that's worth looking into further. I'd suggest talking to the council planners, but they are IME absolutely flaming useless and won't give any advice. Not what I think it should be.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 02 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
That's a parking space, not a drive!

Eh?

OP says their driveway is at the front of their house.

We've no idea what size the drive is, it might be the size of one parking space or it might be the size of 10 parking spaces. However the size of it doesn't matter because you can't put outbuildings forward of the principal elevation of the original house without getting planning permission.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 02 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
you can't put outbuildings forward of the principal elevation of the original house without getting planning permission.

Yes, as you will have read I have asked him where the idea that a low structure is OK came from.
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 03 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Storing a bike outdoors Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

Where did you find the idea that a low structure is OK?

Perhaps that's worth looking into further. I'd suggest talking to the council planners, but they are IME absolutely flaming useless and won't give any advice. Not what I think it should be.


The reason I thought it is ok, is I have seen people having cycle storage boxes and wooden boxes to store bins outside. I have checked the dimensions for some of these boxes online and they are around 6 to 8 ft long and 4ft high. So trying for something similar which could fit a motorbike and hoping my neighbours will not complain to council about it. I wasn't sure if I should inform council about this. If they reject it, I will end up without an option.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 03 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not wanting to build cycle storage or bin storage so any comparison is meaningless.

The building regulations for what you're allowed to build for bin storage can be seen on page 54 of this document:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/442889/BR_PDF_AD_H_2015.pdf

You could build a shed and then hope no one complains but I don't think that's a good idea. What you're wanting is something that falls under permitted development rights that will keep your bike out of the weather.

Here at BCF we have a council planning permission person who's knowledgeable about planning regulations and he's been summoned to this thread...
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kawakid
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d never leave a bike outside it rots.

A shed or garage is needed.

End of.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:18 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of old duffers round here have sheds in their front gardens for their battery powered invalid cars.
The houses round here are funny though, some have huge front garden and tiny rear and vice versa. I bought one
on a corner with the larger rear garden but my next door neighour could park 10 cars on her front garden but has barely
enough back garden for a table and chairs. They seemed to favour triangular plots when setting this estate out
in the 50's for some reason. Put a shed on some wheels would be my suggestion. This bloke got away with it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7469133/Gardener-beats-council-order-tear-shed-putting-wheels-it.html
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been summoned by Ste.…

From what you describe and assuming yours is a typical house with front garden/drive then the highway:

1. The structure is 'operational development' under the definition in s.55 of the T & CP Act 1990.

2. Due to the fact that you are wanting to place it in front of your house, it cannot be treated as 'permitted development' under the GPDO 2015 (as amended) Schedule 2 Part 1 E1(c).

What all this means is that you would need planning permission for it. Depending on the age of the house and what is in your deeds, you may be in breach of a restrictive covenant preventing structures in the front garden as well.

You always have the alternative of applying for planning permission (speak to your neighbours first to make sure they won't object), or just doing it and hoping nobody complains. If you do apply however, there is a fair chance that you'll get a refusal unless your front garden is a large one and you can disguise it somehow.

Not what you wanted to hear, but its best to know where you stand before you make your decision. Smile
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Couple of old duffers round here have sheds in their front gardens for their battery powered invalid cars.
The houses round here are funny though, some have huge front garden and tiny rear and vice versa. I bought one
on a corner with the larger rear garden but my next door neighour could park 10 cars on her front garden but has barely
enough back garden for a table and chairs. They seemed to favour triangular plots when setting this estate out
in the 50's for some reason. Put a shed on some wheels would be my suggestion. This bloke got away with it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7469133/Gardener-beats-council-order-tear-shed-putting-wheels-it.html


Sorry to disagree with Grr666 re. the wheels argument. This case was only successful because somebody at the Council wrongly advised the bloke to put the shed on wheels in order to be able to claim that it was either a temporary structure (i.e. only in the same place for a short time), or that it came under the legal definition of a caravan. The article doesn't say which. It was the giving of wrong advice as opposed to the actual 'development' that was the point in case.

Moving sheds around to avoid enforcement action has been tried many times and it doesn't work because Councils simply serve an enforcement notice that covers all land within the curtilage of the property.

You could do what a friend of mine has done. He has bought a horsebox and built a ramp, on the basis that if the Council tries to argue that it is a permanent structure, we can argue that it isn't. If the worst comes to the worst and the Council manages to have an enforcement notice upheld on Appeal, he can simply sell it with no loss.
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I have been summoned by Ste.…

From what you describe and assuming yours is a typical house with front garden/drive then the highway:

1. The structure is 'operational development' under the definition in s.55 of the T & CP Act 1990.

2. Due to the fact that you are wanting to place it in front of your house, it cannot be treated as 'permitted development' under the GPDO 2015 (as amended) Schedule 2 Part 1 E1(c).

What all this means is that you would need planning permission for it. Depending on the age of the house and what is in your deeds, you may be in breach of a restrictive covenant preventing structures in the front garden as well.

You always have the alternative of applying for planning permission (speak to your neighbours first to make sure they won't object), or just doing it and hoping nobody complains. If you do apply however, there is a fair chance that you'll get a refusal unless your front garden is a large one and you can disguise it somehow.

Not what you wanted to hear, but its best to know where you stand before you make your decision. Smile

Thank you very much for the information. I will speak to the council and see what they say....
I passed my theory 2 days ago, booked my DAS sessions from 20th Oct... Really want to buy a bike, but unsure where to store it Sad.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd speak to neighbours before the council.

And check the deeds of your property for restrictive covenants. Thumbs Up
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