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Dealing with the DT

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally it was my intention to clean the rust from the old tank and patch it but TBH I don't think there'll be much left once the brown stuff has seen a wire wheel Sad

If you recall have a cheap Chinese tank. It's billed as "café racer retro" or whatever but it's patterned after old-skool Yamaha tanks (it surprised me how close it is to the original.) However, the mounts are all wrong - probably meant for a more modern YBR or something. Thankfully the Chinese are pretty mean with the welder so there's not much cutting to get the front and back mounts off.

Tank mounts don't see much stress (relative to joining bits of frame back together!) So I was intending to braze but errr.... I didn't twig that MAPP isn't man enough to tackle brazing Doh! (Although you might manage it with an oxy tank but if you're going that far you may as well go acetylene which is much better.) MAPP is hotter than propane and apparently "gets up to speed" quicker - something technical about vapour pressures I think Smile

Anyhoo, I didn't know anything about MAPP but it's dirt cheap relative to proper welding kit. Silver solder rods are as easy to work with as plumbing solder so it feels a bit like cheating Smile TBH I have no idea how strong silver is for structural stuff but I assume it's a case of silver < brazing < welding.

Pre-fluxed rods work a treat! Having seen the results of "gasless" MIG welders on YouTube, a little chat on these esteemed forums and the tank being probably 1.2mm steel this seemed the way to go.
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 07 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

First good weekend in a while so I thought I'd have a general tinker. There was a bit of premix left in the tank so I thought I'd just get it running for a bit... wow, turned out to be an all day job Shocked

I dropped in the Chinese copy carb. My intention was to use it more as a placeholder while I rebuilt the old carb but that may change...

Lesson 1: a bit of tape is not enough to block an air leak! I could hear the hiss of air through the oil feed inlet on the carb. So I took the advice already given to me on this thread and got a bit of pipe and a screw Smile

Lesson 2: these engines are amazing! I did eventually get it going with a combo of trying choke or trying a bit of throttle. It wouldn't run smoothly though Sad

Wait, WTF?! Gas escaping? Must need to tighten up the exhaust manifold bolts. Errrr... nope! Actually coming from the cylinder head gasket Shocked I swear I torqued these to spec Thinking

I seem to recall torquing them to ~25Nm, dunno why but I checked the Haynes and it says 40Nm. I suspect I torqued them to earlier DT175A/B specs. Anyhoo, between that and the few heat cycles and test runs the bike's had the bolts are now torqued to...

Finger tight. Egads!

We have an air leak and low compression and still this engine wants to fire up? Amazing. Okay, air leak and cylinder head torqued (had to remove the exhaust to get to one of the bolts.) How is it now?

On choke, starts first or second kick Smile Even a "bad" kick and it tries to catch Very Happy Now why won't it idle for more than 30 seconds?

I put an in-line fuel filter on the pipe and there doesn't seem much coming through. Switch to reserve? Nada Sad Cue dull, 1 hour drama where I realise the reserve side of the petcock is still gummed up with crap. Once that was cleared out the engine ran smoothly - on choke.

Off choke I couldn't get it going well but by this point I was running low on light and fuel so I called it a day. That's the "Tell" part out of the way, on with the "Show" Smile

Do you like cheese? How about some nice cheddar:

https://i.imgur.com/K6ej62D.jpg?1

This is what £10 gets you from eBay's finest. Doesn't look too bad, eh? Brace yourself for the heady aroma of Gorgonzola:

https://i.imgur.com/S41gUDX.jpg?1

Heat shield made from a scrap of diamond link fence. One of those "it sounded better in my head" moments Very Happy
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 14 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunshine and showers Sad Hey-ho, get the work done when you can...

I thought I'd tackle the tacho gear and oil pump. On left we have what was in the bike with the correct parts on the right:

https://i.imgur.com/zxvRMtN.jpg?1

Note the "cog side" direction is the same but the worm gears are mirrored. I still can't get a straight answer from the "Enduro Experts" as to what happened here so I'll carry on with my assumption that these mirror parts are from a DT125.

Had a quick look at the clutch plates while I was in there - just some surface rust so I gave them a buff with some Scotchbrite. I rocked the bike back and forth in gear a bit (spark plug out!) to eyeball the assembly in motion. It seems to operate a lot better so hopefully I can wind in the clutch cable adjusters. A quick burn up the road would sort it but lots to do before that Sad

Refitted the oil pump, and got the case back on. Tricky stuff with the gasket flapping about:

https://i.imgur.com/3NOjlHi.jpg?1

I'm wondering whether to leave the little clear section of pipe on there as a visual check that oil's present in the system Thinking
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 15 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weather's a bit shit so time to work under cover.

I'd already given the tank a battering to widen it out. Time for the pegs:

https://i.imgur.com/iF27bj4.jpg?1

Not the neatest job but it's underneath, out of sight Smile Ran out of solder rods to do the rear bracket that bolts to the frame; went through a bit too much of the stuff while getting used to the medium Rolling Eyes
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 16 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

For steel clutch plates, stick a bit of wet and dry to something properly flat (marble slab/plate glass). Spray adhesive works, or simply water to get it to stick.

Sand them clean and flat (you'll know they are flat when the whole surface is clean) using a side-to-side motion, not circles to improve friction.

That's how I was taught to do it by a multiple times NSA sprint champion.
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never ending storeeeee..... ooohwoa-ooohwoa-oohwoa...

Yes it's that time again: Episode 68 of Project Procrastination Wink

Finished the bodgery on the el-cheapo fuel tank:

https://i.imgur.com/rsehmWQ.jpg?1

Silver soldered the rear bracket back on. Chinesium is a fascinating material, merely by huffing on it it starts to rust Sad Gave the underside a coat of anti-rust enamel as a stop-gap measure:

https://i.imgur.com/MS33yPX.jpg?1

More hackery on the £15 seat:

https://i.imgur.com/krLdMdq.jpg?1

The original is scooped out at the back. I approximated the shape needed and got busy with the Dremel Smile

As the rear brackets are going to bolt to the mudguard I thought I'd better do the neatest desecration possible:

https://i.imgur.com/IlsabSd.jpg?1

Wayhay! Almost time to start her up Very Happy Just need to fit the fuel tank, oil tank, overflow pipes - oil tank, battery, carb bowl, carb breather, petcock, fuel line, check the brakes... not much really Wink And yes, again it starts pretty well choke; more on that later.

Diagnostic No.1:

https://i.imgur.com/n23GBOq.jpg?2

Just checking oil is coming through from the rebuilt pump, looks good!

So as mentioned the bike starts pretty reliably (first or second kick) on choke. Leave it to warm up and take the choke off? Cuts out. Leave it running on choke? Occasionally cuts out at random. Sometimes starts with no choke and some throttle, can't get it to idle though, cuts out on a whim Thinking

Diagnostic No.2:

https://i.imgur.com/yL5P6aF.jpg?1

Classic clear pipe and crack open the float drain screw. This picture is engine off, looks fine. And....

..it all disappears when you start the engine Doh!

Sounds like some float height adjustment required. Anyhoo, been at it 4 hours straight so time for a cup of tea!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and here's where it's got to:

https://i.imgur.com/FA4A5TK.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/PsrpVyL.jpg?1

Yes, the heat shield looks terrible but I've recently managed to snag a proper one from eBay (UK not US!) for £20 Very Happy
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks fine to me
Needs more go fasterer chequered tape on tank and mudguard tho
and a brown seat cover.....

I know its probably how it was made but the clocks seem 'flattish' to me
I keep wanting to yank them back towards the rider a bit, say 30 degrees
or so
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say I'd really noticed till you pointed it out but I guess the angle of view is meant from standing on the pegs rather than sitting Smile
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing I noticed as well. They don't look right and they don't look like those in images of other DT175s of the era. I'm not saying it matters - just that it's all horribly, horribly wrong. Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 22 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tell them it's amod to make them easier to read when you're stood up on the pegs.
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 23 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be the camera angle. They are the original clocks and mounting holder. They might not quite be sat in the cups and damping rubbers straight, granted.

Here's a random advert from Google Images:

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20C/Yamaha%20DT%20175%2074%20%202.jpg

As you can see, the clocks run parallel to the forks (which mine also do.) Now compare to the MX a few years later:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/f7/5b/39f75bd79fcf48c42737eb57235dbc4a.jpg

More the angle you were expecting Smile

Regarding the carb, a cursory examination of my clear tube had the level at somewhere around half to two-thirds the bowl height but this was on the bike and the carb's at a slight angle (tipped towards the cylinder.)

I gave the tang a wang (ooo-eerrr!) and it's more like bowl full length which is definitely too much but I think I'd like to start tomorrow (got to do some working-from-home too so maybe not!) With plenty going in to overflowing and then tone it down a bit. Starting from there I can assess whether a) I've been dumb and bought too thin a fuel pipe or b) there is really no use in these Chinese carbs. Shame, it looks really good and I prefer the plunger style of choke.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 23 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A pic from earlier in the thread shows they're not quite as flat/horizontal as later pics may have suggested.
I doubt it worth doing major mods to change anyway

Can you move your needle up a notch on that carb?
if the float height is correct, that should richen it a bit if it's
tending to run lean
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Just_James
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 23 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really nice work on this! Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:48 - 24 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
A pic from earlier in the thread shows they're not quite as flat/horizontal as later pics may have suggested.
I doubt it worth doing major mods to change anyway

Can you move your needle up a notch on that carb?
if the float height is correct, that should richen it a bit if it's
tending to run lean


Next time I take some photos I'll try and get some better angles Smile

I had a bit of a stab at dialling in the carb - the sorta of fruitless dicking about with the mixture and idle screws that obviously goes nowhere Rolling Eyes Just one time I managed to start it and take it off choke... and then the magic was gone. TBH I wasn't in the right frame of mind after actually having to really work from home rather than paying lip service to the concept Sad

I had a lot more luck with the old one but as I discovered the "compression issue" I thought maybe the Chinese copy might work. So I set about actually cleaning the former:

https://i.imgur.com/2GRvuCh.jpg?1

Yes, well, errr... those two visible holes on the pilot jet are the only ones that aren't blocked! I now have a good feeling about this carb for tomorrow Smile

One thing that confuses me: the factory spec is for a VM24SS. The internal diameter of the cylinder side on the old carb is 28mm. Does this mean it's actually a VM28 of some sort?
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 24 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear, the tach is a bit wonky:

https://i.imgur.com/nMlxNAn.jpg?1

Probably the cables to the bulbs aren't quite flattened down enough. There's backlight, hi-beam, indicators and neutral so a fair few wires.

Starts pretty well on the old carb. Doesn't seem to like choke though:

https://youtu.be/yCdUFFP1I5I

Main problem, bent peg and gear lever:

https://i.imgur.com/tSig6m5.jpg?1

Makes changing gear a bit tricky Shocked I foresee a date with a vice and blow lamp!

By the time I got on the road I only had a dribble of fuel left into the tank so it was straight to the garage the other side of town. I took some bananas with me (my father-in-law is in an at-risk group so be nice to drop him some) and set off down the road.

Unsurprisingly First runs out pretty sharpish. Not easy to change up but I had it in Third at one point so it seems the gearbox is at least usable Smile A few more hours/miles/whatever and I think the clutch will be okay; certainly better since I gave the steels a clean.

Very easy riding experience as far as handling was concerned. Drum brakes are... interesting. Fine under 20mph but forward planning required for anything over that Shocked All-in-all very odd to jump on a bike and just instantly get on with it (apart from the gear shift) so I guess my eBike/MTB experience must count for something Thinking

The leg back (after dropping off the bananas) was not so good Sad

Just couldn't get the thing above 3K before spluttering. Thing is: going over to the garage would have been on a mixture of leftover premix and stale fuel and running on fumes at that. There shouldn't be any shit in a new tank (well, not compared to the old one anyway) but even so there could be some crap in the carb. Alternatively it could be running a bit rich, now it's go some decent fuel. Somehow I think not, feels more like lack of fuel in the mid-range.

Carb, as far as I can tell, is a VM28 very much like wot those Enfield Bullets have Wink When cleaning I noticed the jet was a #130 (factory spec is #140 on a VM24SS) and the pin was set at the highest position (clip at bottom) so I'm thinking lob in a 140 and reset the pin to the default middle position and see what happens. Still, only really Day One Wink

After that, carb refurb kit or just get a decent carb?
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bypass2
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 25 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

when you say it only goes to 3rd gear is it to high on the gear shaft if so take the gear lever of and lower the gear lever abit try that. with the new petrol tank did you still use the old petrol tap if so maybe the tap needs cleaning. try the middle clip on the neddle jet
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 25 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not "it only got into 3rd 'cos <various mechanical excuses>" I only got up to 3rd 'cos suburban roads and doing 20mph. Apologies for not being clear. Having said that, good point: I haven't actually dialled in where the lever should be but it's coming off anyway to get battered into shape so I'll look at that then.

The tank is new along with the petcock. Even so, a bit of shit floating about is not a possibility I'd discount.

I may or may not tinker with the bike tomorrow. Annoyingly my boss is still on my case to get shit done (via WhatsApp) but then the upside is I get paid at the end of the month and not everyone is so lucky Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 26 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of luck on eBay: NOS peg brackets and some nice pegs that no one bid on! Also found a NOS brake pedal as a bonus Smile Only the gear shifter has a date with the blowlamp Very Happy
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 26 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is only a 175 2 smoke y'know
it wont get torquey until its revved like buggery
so dont expect it to burble quietly as it pulls you along in 5th at 30mph
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 26 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
It is only a 175 2 smoke y'know
it wont get torquey until its revved like buggery
so dont expect it to burble quietly as it pulls you along in 5th at 30mph


Well yes, it's that distinctive chainsaw sound going down the road leaving a trail of smoke Smile Still surprised how easy going it is though (when running!) somehow I was expecting something... finicky Thinking
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 31 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT's are not at all revvy. I would expect lots of low down grunt followed by power dropping like a stone at 7k. It's not a highly strung motor at all.
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 04 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
DT's are not at all revvy. I would expect lots of low down grunt followed by power dropping like a stone at 7k. It's not a highly strung motor at all.


As per my Workshop thread, I got out on the road today. Power seems to start at about 4k, certainly seemed to be happy cruising at 4 ~ 5k. Got it up to 4th gear on the main drag so gearbox seems okay. Still not sure about the clutch but then again I've only put about 2 miles on the thing, if that, so barely had the cobwebs blown out. Dashed bad timing, this virus business Neutral

First up I started sorting out the pegs, before:

https://i.imgur.com/tSig6m5.jpg?1

After:

https://i.imgur.com/9eGU2Du.jpg?1

Got a pair of NOS mounts and some excellent S/H pegs. Didn't do the other side yet:

https://i.imgur.com/7L6bn8k.jpg?1

Eeek! So no, drill, tap or slot cut. How did I miss that?! Thankfully the O/S peg isn't too bad - more a completionist thing to swap it over.

Also dumped the cheese grater:

https://i.imgur.com/LS9gAgN.jpg?1

For this:

https://i.imgur.com/iIKEPl1.jpg?1

Cool

Almost finished, last lap now hopefully:

https://i.imgur.com/0ZMhCaM.jpg?1
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 11 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

dat back light
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PostPosted: 03:10 - 12 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
dat back light


That's an original Euro-spec brake lamp. The American ones are different but no better looking. Do you think it's worth changing?
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