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350 bullet Trials redux

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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 25 Oct 2019    Post subject: 350 bullet Trials redux Reply with quote

Earlier this year my 350 bullet failed spectacularly. Simply lost power while riding.

Further investigation revealed fail of epic proportions!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jifwM2y9D5ZCpxDX_E2W5VrNRd0UsbLzSNUVCsBJqyLEvaQPOLu8PeFSQCH2Ht9_uQLfSpikFxdSNUJsQ8yCpT64MA244NQ84O_yPXKTXekX97i3uRR-N_wel2GBnSwhFPRWnDYBmg=w1155-h866-no

Yes, that is the bottom half of the exhaust valve!

As best as I can make out, a lump of coke get trapped between the vale and it seat causing a slight bend in the valve. Subsequently, every time it closed, the stem flexed slightly leading to a fatigue fracture.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jNVqzPsy7VriTgWFGZHyJs6SqsKaGyDD8CS4wQOJhuDJsAyI6g7gKfHTh-jMyLCRgrO-i1oDt8vVLO8LL7UJ-m04mgjs43rhhtjndT0IGC8R1vLGtsPDxwOcaSVGmGpLPwQnOynVqQ=w1155-h866-no

The head faired little better, the valve head got pounded into the inside of the head, the seat and the valve guide was toast.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Wow_z6YXPHbRYSOb284qTv7ndMORIMB_rLC6dCD7dTOwzA_qLNmc7JrrDVCPrjIyh9T45-1KEcRl8zO-tKYr4fi3uRbQ0BJU72FbAS3G1ZdLWYqnSygZknMeXcbNlfCegTGZ6-zyBA=w1155-h866-no

However, where there's a will, there's a way. My local engineering guy thought the seat would recut so I set to with a die grinder then qwet and dry, then wire wool. This is about as good as I could get it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p_q_Tx43MPeAIv2kgQN4EvcBs7XplO42lTT7DiWafKAMfInbY0zE5MdnN81Cn7S2uRUuS_PXiyzFXpacK0Z5_YdB0IHL6kmYjm-dTPKfVs-ZGZN0Qmfof5Jm0cV-NNs21cNWPiiXCA=w1155-h866-no

The head was then put in for a seat recut, new valve guide and new valve. it's now probably better than a standard head. I wanted to keep this head because it's been ported and gasflowed, those are bigger, lighter valves than standard with improved springs.

However, as is always the case with this kind of failure, it needed a full engine strip to get all the bits of alloy out of the crankcases. This is where I found a second, more severe problem which is nothing to do with the original failure.

The drive shaft (which is a keyed, taper fit in the crank flywheel) was loose. Very loose, it could be rotated 5 degrees either way and had noticeable vertical play. Further investigation shows this had ovalled the hole in the flywheel so while I could fit a new drive shaft, the flywheel itself was toast and they aren't available seperately. Scrub one crank!

A variety of options here ranging from a rebuild using another scrap crank, through a recon crank up to a full UK made crank with a longer stroke to take it out to 410cc. The latter would be more than I paid for the bike 10 years ago!

I eventually went for a recon crank with a silver needle roller big end conversion. Moderately expensive but not a deal-breaker.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jliIcSB83NxTeSnJmYv2TKvqRPyZA33CZuKK7tUjVXfuf9jluMJ2QuGPQpY3nbFabIfItldVQHRCsiSlPA8UwWush68AJ95Fz_ilMxgn8tpFNZ39YH5y_XY0oP5QYFHW_mXUeT0qNQ=w1155-h866-no

I also aquired a "garage oven".

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l8sXk49COmm5xT8zDH3KyYfdURz-oZllgFzMFEvtEMp9wO5f1orbMjIDpxd9quxGM0wGjSQEt-88SI50chDmKgiN33YgjoXxAwf9FuzZ5w8qth1cZ8qDnGSCQgNOQ771-YOrQUkM1w=w1155-h866-no

This allowed me to easily remove the old main bearings, which were heavily peened on the inner races and fit some european SKF ones.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1pK64ibsmQwLmbHN0q91qi9hlbzEE94kuJ73J0GDahmm8mgJlmTO_jrgpglnUIv6dXYVB3ox6u5UKRKNKW6UnhaoG6ETHgW2QkBc6tGLoD5JBhLxm1m8UD9-05rUmK0v-DA1O59voA=w1155-h866-no

Well that was easy... too easy. Next step fitting the crank. Despite having made a puller before I started, the timing side simply would not go down. After putting the micrometer on it, I found they'd ground the timing shaft to 1" instead of 25mm. The crank had to come out again and was sent back to alpha bearings to try again!

Second time around it all went down properly. Bolted it up and the crank wouldn't turn... What now!? Well, if you look at the crankcases, you'll see some casting sprues on the inside. The slightly different design of flywheel was binding against these. Again had to tase the whole lot apart and face these off.

At the third time of asking, I finally get the bottom end back together and moving.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RMffIjPLPi27z0knM-VxiL97lBl9EydJsv3duOOJP42tG3wz_52KkJc59hBiXInLheAEEnhHG2fdGX8MgNuACfVV5-JDvzIYTcKslPIeEwDA6ss6Yh0c8R4RL2KibhdCTyzm3laUvA=w1155-h866-no

I also took the oppertunity to block up the "breathing" hole modification on later bullets which makes them breathe through the oil tank and which I'm convinced causes them to draw excess oil into the crankcases, leading to excessive blowpast, carbon build up and probably what caused the initial failure. (it's the M6 bolt in the back of the crankcase web) .

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JFhFxkdVXICaavR17j9Hl3jf4hC1RrcOkd8W28L2qKpHLy0--HBImintIkQZ1P2_lm-Jo-wnHrunt8FA-RMSey0qrVixIUmbsdJ1XWruArIqDj03gGXk5tt6pm3-LaVz89rsoANLmQ=w1155-h866-no

I also managed to source a NOS, 1960's heopplite piston for it. It's designed for a meteor twin but is identical to a bullet one other than a slightly higher compression crown. These do not suffer from the crown collapse that standard indian pistons do and didn't cost a small mortgage like a modern forged one.

So we have an engine!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 25 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now the whole of the rest of the bike was looking pretty tired. Lots of rust and yad. I also have a another pretty epic roadgoing enfield bullet so do I need a similar bike with less than 1/3 of the horsepower?

Something I've always fancied a go at are classic reliability trials and a bullet is a good bike to use. They are relatively light, not too powerful, have low down torque and are almost infinately modifiable. You can buy many off the shelf trials parts for them such as high level exhausts and even low ratio gear clusters and they have a long pedigree of this kind of use.

First step was strip it right down then took the frame and swingarm to the powdercoaters to have it media blasted.

I decided not to go for powdercoating because for trials work, it'll get chipped and dinged. Instead i went for a technical paint. It's designed for painting skips. It's an alkyd resin paint which people used to call machine enamel. Lots of classic bike frames and tractors are painted with this stuff. It goes onto bare metal and sets hard as nails. It can also be touched in if it gets damaged.

I opted for grey, again there is a tradition for classic trials bikes to have coloured frames. Enfield used to use a nasty pale green for their works trials bikes so this is a nod to that kind of tradition without trying to pretend I have a works bike.

Five coats later:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4nr8wZgHuwFiYoMdsfH3TXsGXd5rfD7wedHcZ7OHIIzCEk_Fp-YdEEcNJHH5G8T1KaqluDBD5m2k8kWQMdTsfWxjvaTttIK-m5i3iFpvHZeTF4dMgFVMC-VxQErfwB2da5VPu_8I_Q=w1155-h866-no

Todays job has been to get it sitting on its wheels. Hopefully with the engine in.

So swingarm refitted, yoke and nacelle refitted with new steering bearings and the forks screwed in (the screw into the nacelle with a conventional bottom yoke. I'm going to use fork gaiters instead of shrouds so I cut down the original shrouds and repainted them.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fc8vB_l8jVy1YowW0VLnATl4oN0syUmFY8esSjb3WIawB1QhERa6UDYFhMnDAYZpf8WjGpKNVJL4UirDorbo6TwpUMvlo1E74-qVNQ7jBU934PWrxegI4-Nr3IPac4qhfiOcyeYbLw=w1155-h866-no

Chinese ebay special shocks. Less tightly sprung and 20mm over standard. Ride height remains the same but with more travel. Effectively boingier.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zhT-p26Fk0UyVL7a-nWAvvolZolR8sGgB1KpUPdj2BIy1JHklLpxf1w2frE20SFWQ20nkHEpOhMStBml6FZkrrJb76PIdSFoNKb2EYK0IXHAbi3k4ghxmW3njLisKeuCfJ6UG7aukQ=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/24oezzbeXrOdR5EyARpv8Dd7y3vqF39SquRa0GPyQrFh3WsXn_oTg9EWPW9S98Ql0Hqz-xc9o32wDttYvc5pv5XKLzbUnIskDbn5uVZ8MEy4cWz42ul5vf1iwqKn0OseuKCbqI6vQA=w650-h866-no

I also got a front wheel with tyre off ebay for £16! This is an old style one with a half-width hub. The standard wheel has a full width, twin-leading brake. They can be a bit on the snatchy side when they heat up and don't work backwards so if I get myself into trouble on a steep hill restart, it could be a bit of a liability. This is less effective as a brake but they are reliable and easy to maintain and do work backwards. The bike will be being significantly geared down anyway so I won't be going much over 50mph flat out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xQFHcKY1W_JuNGre-yVMFzPInhiWejsk5g_mYU_wgZu9P9kCLdWuVwHmZBVFDuyMNIRdAKTF_mqW6rU2xvexrIggZTjJc2sN-VVDu5dy-KucVsYEVHMAuJRtXIYiqcmGKkq32LbQiA=w1155-h866-no

I've also stripped, de-rusted and repainted all the engine brackets with plastikote woodstove paint. This is also an enamel that is heat cured (garage oven) and is very robust.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SuXMloE7NFwxZxCqo2Tg4drW9tmRpa85q8mCF1xdOa-HHl7MoqAqOjMvHhbClkRMUeleJKfG0qD4uuktfC6Csa5uw6JjrauAH6ZOKz_3RQdCYn2StelX0N3FbVD_RzEPKsYQWidYBQ=w1155-h866-no

Next job is to fit the engine in the frame. then I can sit on it and make brumming noises!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 25 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mission accomplished for today. Once the engine is in, i can put the stand on it and don't have to keep lifting it in and out of the workshop and leaning it on stuff.

So the easiest way is to leave the gearbox off (it can be fitted later) and balancing the engine on top of something (in this case a jack) tilt it so the front bolt can be put through.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6IN7fsRH1FCSh69vtDG4j0yPsRpgErRV71g0BbDyPAjd-GHbQQ7WYCPQWqWKqLcMxvAtsatE3GV0QEmrFmrmw7uazvdmtpwU9SLBg0LC-2Hc3wMXmbbOOqQ5a4ffMo-y5v1N63UH0g=w1155-h866-no

Once that's in, it can be pivoted up into place usaing the jack under the engine. making sure the bolt for the gearbox is in place because you can't put it in once the engine is in because it fouls the frame (as I found with my last build!).

However, the engine is a fully stressed frame member, there are no downtubes/frame rails. This makes it very easy to lift the engine into place but the frame springs apart when you remove the engine meaning the holes don't line up for the last bolt.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jtjm-yeRSVgbbmPWdMx4F_P90IHgNv-Xndjrj3vn8U1u2E2D1EfP-OuOYqleY6AaRCpIJYIkABIgZL-d70uGA1xOdPnG3JJWzWdZ9Rza_rvBATMTL5tBvZ_syizhDzJdR2m95ZRymw=w1155-h866-no

I found the easiest way to do this is to put a load binder round the front of the engine and ratchet/jack the engine until it's all lined up. (a judicious tap with a rubber mellet helps things along).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FR-UxM9qq3nMRyRCgc8Zh_d4EsLotDjXVTuULe5h1x7q4HrXqSiOrLUVgDRfWud49J8kuhlB8UfHMkLN4L3sW4g5yHvC9D3l6yJl1SY1UMkNhRmL4M8U97VHlZV1RtpUTZE3wSDxCQ=w1155-h866-no

Engine in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y-jZbUacQPpjNuY7B741WXMAIT8Pr5FYbWckuzk1h1B5QHFfjAcdFrEq6GkO63QvbJDAlycAA2_kzSwQOrCJddswRa_p5ggNp4iufmWRZ9jwketM2Ra6tc52nRz_r95hFklLqib5hg=w1155-h866-no

Stand on.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uuzC17jNYN4QCQSwVOWYxnfYpzhucuYKqbvRz_pepaY2N73AoPZ_945CA-MXCYaBOB-0MM8wMmYh-3Nm-0YQUlpeZM1SV5L6DM6nfOs_9Or5smz61FbtqeMQecn6M-ifn4tGvwgM6A=w1155-h866-no

Enough for today.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/y3AQzAKvJdr1d2rjhENnnsQWkWb5L9sblDYcrMCWVGSXo_4hL6Ag0PoW1jXXP-gjGUAkGgeep6ANETy-w5Xr-qEvfAn9HTfdDfpsTesILLl7M2-Bp8_9gBe5epP6EKWAc74DbJXSlg=w650-h866-no

Tomorrow will be fiddly stuff. I want a bash plate so I don't crack the crankcases on a rock so that'll be to fabricate. I also want to have a look at footpeg positioning. The standard pegs are too far forwards, too low down and are ridgid. None of this is good for offroading. I have some ideas but they all needed the engine in place to see where stuff ends up.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 03:15 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was in classic trials I first encountered an Indian Enfield.
There was, at the time more than a little contention over pre-65 bikes 'authenticity' and debates raged over folk building essentially 'then' near contemporary 'new' T-Shock machines from a couple of parts of real pre-65 bike, and a lot of NOS and after-market bits, like ali-mudguards from the Sammy Miller catalogue.

I was treated, a couple of years back to a rather good duels between a chap with a completely modern B40, with semi-majestied frame, sorting a Mikuni Carb, burnbage electronic ignition and mazzochi rear springs, and another with an old Matchless/AJS single.... one would beat t'other one meet, then they#d reverse places in the next!! Pretty good examples of the fifferent ethos, and I seem to recall, the chap with the BSA quipping that for all hie bikes headline 'mods' it was still closer top standard than the AMC bitsa with a miscellany of parts from different AMC models and years!!!

Back to the Enfield, sometime around the mid '90's as I recall, the ACU issued a ruling to allow 'Replica' machines in classic classes, as long as the replica was 'in the spirit' of an original era bike, legitimising the 'new' Indian Enfields built after aprox 1988, for pre-65 competition, to end the controversy, and I seem to remember the ACU claimed that Pre 65 was created as a low cost class for obsolete old dinasaurs and enthusiasts, not for rich anoraks to parade nut and bolt resto's, so was for the good of the sport.

Couple of thunks sprung to mind then; first off, do you envisage any actual yrials competitions with the thing? If so, is the build for the sport, and or do you intend any classic 'long trial' events and or road or laning excursions on it? Ie is tyhere a build philosophy?

Mention of high crown pistons, got me thinking there... and after the night-mare flash-backs to a poor BSA C15, with a Baracuda fibreglass tank and some rather nasty 'de-lugging', I was given as a teen-ager to 'trialls chop' after it hand tangled its valves and mashed the dome of a rather nice Hepolite, and never ran again...... If I was building for competition, I would probably [choke] de-tuned the enfield motor, if anything.... I think that the 'done thing' is an aluminium spacer under the barrel to lower the C/R, and stretched push-rods to accommodate. For short section 'Observed' trials, you only need maybe 9-10bhp, Bantams do well; and low gears. I have an inkling that there was a devious mod to get round cast on hub-sprockets, by fitting the gearbox back-to-front, or similar; or may just be my hazy recollection of paddoc bollox....

For long trial and trail use, a more road friendly set-up 'may' be more in order, and tuning and gearing down may work OK... like I ask, is there a project philosophy and are you working to any guidelines, like the ACU regs or common pre-65 set-up advice?

Either way.... rather your hoof on the starter lever than mine!!! Lol... it's OK once you have the knack.... I'm told!
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I say "higher" compression, I don't mean "high" compression. It's going from standard 6.5:1 to around 8:1. Needle roller big end should cope.

I'm interested in doing long distance classic trials like the Lands End and Edinburgh (maybe start smaller and more local first though) so it'll be tacitly road tyres and needs to be able to maintain at least some semblance of road speed, tank range and a modicum of comfort. So that's the build ethos.

I believe, as you say, that the MCC allow bullets to compete in the "classic" classes, which seems fair when you see "pre-'65" BSAs which are 90% CCM. That said, i think it'll be class-0 for me to start with, I have almost zero off-road experience other than dirt tracks to access camping sites and rally fields.

It's being built for use not authenticity but with a nod to what went before where possible. After all, the solutions to the problems you run into now are for the same problems that faced competitors back in the day. I'm intending to fabricate, modify or re-purpose as many "custom" parts as possible which is definately in the ethos of the class.

Todays problems. Three raised sump plugs sticking out the bottom of the engine and a horribly exposed alloy oil filter housing on a bike with no frame rails. Also a set of rigid footpegs mounted under the engine.

The most expensive trials bits to actually buy to-date are a high level exhaust system (got one for £100 second hand) and a set of trials tyres. I'm going to go plastic mudguards unless a set of used alloy ones come up cheap.

I swithered about going for a 21" front wheel but I decided it would be a lot of fannying about and expense. If I was on 17" wheels, it would be an issue but the step-up from 19-21" is nowhere near as big a step. There is room for a pretty wide tyre in there so I'm thinking wide tyre, low pressure for a large contact patch. It's more mud and sluther than obstacles on the observed sections and the short suspension travel could use all the help it can get.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main reason to go 18" rear 21" front, is ACU/FIM 'control' tyres, are specced in 18x4.00 and 21x2.75 sizings. This is then the defacto standard trials tyre sizing, and offers most availability.

For short section, 'the' tyres to use are Mitchelin (I forget the code and CBA to go outside and look at the Cota!), super sticky 'trials slicks'. (Usually only available at specialist trials emporiums, NOT tyre dealers or e-bay, be warned)

In the gloop, these are about as much grip as you can get. Mainly from the stickiness. More spiky, MX knoblies might dig-in and grip better on grass and mud, but the regulation block-tread is a good all-round compromise on everything else, like wet gravel and wood, and the trials slick is a revelation on wet rock, like a stream bed. Work darn well on tarmac too.... dont last long of course, but. If you aren't plotting many tarmac miles that need not be a big problem. (I have managed to deck the pegs on tarmac on the Cota, on trials slicks, they GRIP, and I would recommend!!)

FWIW, in my first trial, back in 1986; I paddled around trying just to do my laps (and failed!) Unc got chatting to the School-boy brigade, and came back to tell me I had bought the wrong bike, I should have got a Fantic 'mono', and ought to have all the Lycra gear. Pops came back with some more useful advice from the Pre-65 boys; top of which was that the tyres are ALL, and having brakes that 'work' is sort of helpful! Laughing MY advice is that the best bit of kit I ever bought was some decent boots... and a pressure washer!

You are on the doorstep of probably the 'last' English 'classic' long-trial, the Red Rose, of course... any aspirations?

stinkwheel wrote:
Todays problems. Three raised sump plugs sticking out the bottom of the engine and a horribly exposed alloy oil filter housing on a bike with no frame rails. Also a set of rigid footpegs mounted under the engine.


Add on edd: A sump-guard between doen-tube and rear engine mounts would be helpful. Not so much to protect the sump from being bashed, but to aid 'sliding' off rocks and logs and stuff.

Pegs? You used to be able to but weld on spring loaded pegs and brackets in the Sammy Miller catalogue. I would endorse their use. I have manages to mangle a peg in competition over the years, B-U-T, motivator here is more likely that The Dawg has 'solid' pegs, actually 2" BMX stunt pegs with old bar ends filling the hole at the end! Right royal PITA digging them out the turf when it's gone over on a camp-site at a rally, when loading up the tent! Though 200lb of metal on 3" over length shocks, plus the rack, throw-overs and a week-ends worth of luggage 'probably' didn't help!! But could do without having to excavate trials bike pegs every time it's gone down!
____________________
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at a lot of pictures etc. Many of the "bash plates" seem to just be a bit of alloy plate. I'm after something more robust than that. Most of them also attach to engine bolts, I want mine attached to the frame.

Please excuse my welding by the way. I'm not very good at it but it's improving the more practice I get.

So, started with a bracket at the front, attachign to a handy existing hole in the mounting plate. I've extended this sideways so it offers at least some protection to the oil filter housing.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hqo5kPUI_W9CHeVcc4VynR6WqKi79vMlrVRSrMhQPC2HQ82D7_bl709biJhN58o1u3aC2VbEA7u7JsulIRcqV0F0IN3mbzH6sd75baUCFrxzk8z2U3Ra0pWubkQ4Vq_mmrLgY8EjQA=w650-h866-no

A second one at the rear of the engine attaching to the original footpeg mounts. You can see how exposed to damage those drain bolts are on this shot.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hva-W9u9I6Mt39qWIQDzyeX1kYvxebyTTuMvBhhvRaoxoXi1jHnWvrrvPOO2lEq1otBBrxz1fUlAtqadclJUy0GvhITva8qK2XfEzKCk1ggliHmLrl69NuE6aULagwu1cbRveeSVSg=w1155-h866-no

Then a quick diversion into town because I'd run out of suitable gauge steel. Then join the two brackets with longitudinal bars. The right hand side longitudinal runs directly over all three sump bolts which is the most vulnerable part. Tack-welded in-situ so it'll hopefully all line up when I refit it then finished off off the bike.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W2sAG5wEI-2pjiZOUxJE199wedBlazlsn6yeZY71Y9oCB9rs5yjfTFCZolCu8PQX34B7UjUApisE4Yv1pZht62RSVWA5Mz3uTdE0snL8BTVRGHIlPqbAHL0o76fjNdhnt0WKhn_lOA=w650-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yqK8c4yK57baYh1E_DYu9nIZXWYHQWqj0wRXM7CNa6KMO_JJjS3N8b_9SRa8Llk5SIgjK1m04vAQdJ4r2vT4uXJ0NsEQJ7QVqoyTeW4y-VZ4SbWV3FcYtrYbU9bW4YWeEXHP4hyr0A=w1155-h866-no

Finally cut out a piece of alloy plate. I could only find chequer-plate but it's tough and pretty thick. May have a tendancy to grip stones but that's not the kind of trialling I'm planning on doing. This is to protect from an odd bang, not to balance the bike on while hopping over rocks.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wNWmqDY_r7qn_uEOfJHKv-FEJ6rmsdtxkWTKSe39nF-3wjIRlLlyEX8T0oNTOSCBkQMmAHexiiLHG3M6wvBqmNxOAXxhYl3ssA-_wnC8PHsZxmlQcT9VMCMvEcogWZE6D-2z7szgNw=w1155-h866-no

Got three coats of paint on tonight so I'll be able to bake it tomorrow and fit it.

This job took ages. I had intended to fit the gearbox and footpegs today too. However, I feel I've done a good job of it, it should be strong enough to balance the bike on. I'll just need to remove one bolt at the front and pivot it down to get at the drain bolts when it's time for an oil change.

As a treat to myself, I offered up the trials exhaust system. Neat, fits like a glove.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7YbqRipW4UYKbEhgmjXVFWNQSbYp33pi6rwZ0cT2K7eZFy12UYLLul3RUE_m0Uz5X7pk5PegGZUkuYsLF5UsoajDePagllcicyIiUfFtcUNo2RN2Vk5IQyLJi-MrOC98zhMCgsqxRQ=w1155-h866-no
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike. That red rose trial looks a bit full-on for what I'm meaning to do. It's more the navigation/reliability type thing where they set you off at 3am over a 250 mile road route with eight or so observed offroad sections + or - restarts.

They are very strict about tyre choice on these, they have to be effectively road tyres so you don't chew up the countryside and they also need to be relatively hardwearing because there is 200 miles of tarmac.

Most people fit Ensign universal trials for 19". Those Michelin X11s are specifically banned from MCC trials.

I have a cunning plan for the footpegs. I THINK I may be able to flip and reverse the pillion footpeg carriers. Failing that, I'll need to fabricate an adaptor plate to bolt some folding pegs on.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that occurred to me, you mention dropped tyre pressures;

you say that M11's are banned under club regs, 'pity'.. but mentioned running low pressures. BIT of advice here; all too easy to go over-board and let the tyres down too much, then when you come to a harder surface, what do you do?

Trick of yore used to be to carry a short push-bike pump to adjust tyre pressures on course. On some long trial bikes, they had pump clips on the rack, on others they used the universal tube clamp's you used to be able to get in Halfrauds, for push-bikes, packed put with tape or a choped up wine-cork, on suitable frame tube or even the swing-arm, to attach on-course adjustment pump.

In OST, since circa 200 the defacto club tyres have been Pirelli Tubless, which can be mounted withe tube on an ordinary rim, though geez they are tough to get on and of! Stiff sidewall though, on the slightly lighter compers (My cota is under 80Kg) yjey can be run down as low as atmosspheric on the sidewall stiffness; BUT be warned, as said all too easy to go too low, and have the tyr4e creeping about all over the place. Even in a marsh, I have never really found much advantage going much under about 10psi, and almost never under 5psi.

IF you are runing low pressures though, creep-clamps are obligatory to stop the tyre walking around the rim, dragging tube with it and ripping the valve off.

Even with creepers, tip is to wind the valve nut up to lock the cap, and leave some play on the tube/valve. Metal valve caps are oft debated matter here too. BUT always fit at least one wheel with a valve removal key-cap, or carry one in the repair kit.

Used to be common in pre-65 for folk to justify getting new wheels built up with 'cheap' after-market alloy rims, to preserve original steels and save drilling them to take a creep-clamp. Finding 'spare' hibs to take new rims, also meant that they could have alternative rim-sets for pockst trials and long trials or event and show or whatever.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be getting rim locks whatever, I've had road tyres slip and rip out the valve core before today, never mind deliberately flat tyres. I'll take a pouch of CO2 cartridges for letting down and inflating purposes
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably know this already in your trade, but, bit of bull-chit I couldn't resist repeating (sic) you know that bovine excrement (and most other species') contains high concentrations of enzymes that 'eat' rubber, don't you?

One of my regular trials venues was off a dairy farm, with access through their yard and the paddock oft set up on hard standing in it. If you left the bike a week before full post event clean-down, your'd come back to see tyres, particularly soft compound trials slicks visibly 'perished' by the slurry when you came to clean, attacked rubber fork gaiters and stuff badly too. Hence advice on pressure washer.

Otherwise still trying to rationalise the juxtaposition between a 1940's design Enfield and space age sparklets bulb tyre inflators! lol.

Old fashioned bike pump, though, have to say has merit; it don't run out of gas/bulbs, for one and turf's-law says that when you need air, you gonna be out of bulbs. Can you hang one from the back of sprung saddle?
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bash plate fitted. Looks good, like a bought-one, except stronger.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mUruHTpFwuAJlTHdyDQhx6tN2eB4kYusmbSCGYIc8pGhAGiIHtHi3pJP4LKAp0qCBOqDppSwKiUuiAKNX4Hcpx7YGzPkQpJmln1mscScB24J1w6wG8ig6b6IIf_wtw5npMtCUIjaTA=w1155-h866-no

The sticky-out bits aren't as prominent as they look here. You'd catch your foot on the gear lever before the one on the right and the left one will be sitting just in front of the primary transmission case which I haven't fitted yet.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PNdmfODUmnR8tpPXgYag4Qyl5L72z_6ZLZ1pLYrmZV11AmWGRIN_6tz1rVeJ2ltdZkFYMUhH_5J2MGCyyiDW5mtQU9dA6tnsswFjkR-45NsKYpkPgwXibMs6y6x4_seXNSCOce9v8A=w1155-h866-no

Gearbox in. I spent ages cleaning up the fasteners which were heavily corroded. Took quite a bit of heat to get some of them apart.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1NlI52WGtptgQ0eHqoabLTY2PYZdRPTe_wWY5cU34eE86WE-QHt2S-oyd6Eoi_KWd5Rca0NI8YRw0EeCMd7kv6w9E6BI_cmXBvg_SORXNFYybBQLOE6mezxXl7QtiahET2FFBVpfaA=w1155-h866-no

And a bit of a mock-up of what it'll look like (ish). Set of vintage renthal desert bars for more leverage. The tank and seat are just laid on top to give me an idea, the tank is actually damaged and the seat is a shonky homemade thing that came fitted to another bike I bought. I'll be using my old lycette style sprung saddle if I can find new upholstery springs for it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lMKbbcIZuRnn-X1j_KgemJOBgk7iFZ4FoIvcqgYltE_Vx2szG099AmfnsRj3wvwM14Euo_cAk2iGTMk7AtmMkzvi1npNo8LNhWCsqlJegAMEUYLynafGQgj1nLGE_9cpsaB1jhPaXw=w1155-h866-no

The thing I was really looking for today was footpeg positioning. The ones fitted here are the pillion pegs flipped and reversed. I think the position isn't too bad. Maybe a touch on the high side but you can sit on the saddle without your knees quite touching your ears.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/khJZM3-IKvFEm_Z5tb5lymhRWdGemM-obR4C4t7fh2Br8WxdNM95AtPJ1AqTXVQG7W8HxnNRzfXM0oz1LdkSkPG6WOy3P6XNbZRn9Vi0KWMbq5qeHUdoR_yXNMeHc42Z47YcKCMaRQ=w1155-h866-no

Found a picture of an original works bullet. I'm not a million miles away in terms of footpeg positioning and the kickstarts clears the folded up peg. It looks like they've used a bracket onto the engine mounting plate and a set of standard rigid pegs.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/T7TbKttoH7blVOwQZZT7xZ0EPLn-EPe5iXxHWqQLOnDdS9fjGUaOJr4AANsA4ro5bz7iMCG3brT7anRTQLqi29kbmR1sf-5PZBo_40s48tAUlmgDE2fkzVM7PG1bcm0WLKRHn_4saw=w640-h427-no

Another bulleteer did this on his trials bike. Very elegant but if anything, even more extreme than my positioning. Shows there are options though, that kind of plate could be used to position the pegs pretty much anywhere.

https://i.ibb.co/0G19rDy/IMG-3194-1.jpg

They just left the gearshifts flapping in the breeze, you select a gear for the section then say with it on the whole. I think some guys even moved it to near vertical so they could reach down and change by hand. The brake lever will take a bit of sorting out but I think I'll be able to bastardise a standard one or just fabricate something a bit shorter.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
They just left the gearshifts flapping in the breeze, you select a gear for the section then say with it on the whole. I think some guys even moved it to near vertical so they could reach down and change by hand. The brake lever will take a bit of sorting out but I think I'll be able to bastardise a standard one or just fabricate something a bit shorter.


Conventionaly, you don't gear-shift 'on-section' if you can help it. there are times/places you are obliged to, but with just 4 cogs to play with and a shed load of low down grunt on a four-banger, there shouldn't be much need to.

You do it all on the throttle, and on the less responsive old 'plonkers' the knack is in predicting when/where/how much throttle you will be needing when you get there.

As to vertical shift levers, is you are 'heeling' the lever, it makes a lot of sense. Some do hand-shift, and I have seen car/tractor gear-levers complete with pool-ball or similar knob, welded to a the shaft-spline socket of a broken shift lever, to make a short suicide shifter for that reason.

If you are doing more road miles, more conventional set-up you 'may' foot change with OTR is likely more practicable, but even then it's not unknown to heel it even on the road.

Brake lever positioning IS more critical.

On most compers the rear brake pedal is very small; the cart-horse shoe plate of an old Pre-65 oft ground right down or chucked away completely for more contemprary aloy after market item.

Unlike on a road bike where your foot would sit over the top of the brake pedal at rest, on a comper your foot sits besides it, so that you don't inadvertently press it when you move about on or more often over the seat.

I have known some that 'heel' the back-brake like they do the gear shift, but it is more common to position so that you can toe the pedal, withe foot on the peg, and just twist toe in a bit to touch', so you don't have to balance on just one peg to use the brake on steep descents etc.

Something you will likely not be able to decide on the 'best' set up, until after a fair few events and use, to a learn the best control techniques (took me ages to learn to keep my arse out of the saddle!) find what you like better.

Advice here is not to be presumptuous and keep your options open.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 28 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen this: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqKbu57J6dkIEj99BE2Typw ?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 28 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:


Aye, and I could hear his crank flywheel binding when he fitted it into the first crankcase half on his last video.

He's welded lugs onto the frame for his footpegs but he has a "new" (read 1960's) frame while the indian bullets have the "old" (read 1940's) frames, even though they were made this century. Makes it hard to work out where mine land up in relation to his but I think I'm in the same ballpark. I don't feel my welding is good enough for something that structural.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 30 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first I thought it was you but then I have noticed the frame colour. But still, quite a coincidence. I've been watching the lad ever since he did the Yamaha Commando.

Hours and hours of a lad building motorcycle, commenting everything with what I would best describe as ''snooker voice''. Smile
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'87 Honda XBR 500 - '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1 (sold) - '90 Honda CB-1 (sold) - '88 Kawasaki GPz550 (sold)
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; At my disposal: MZ 150 ETZ
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 11 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garage day today.

Best get all the mechanical stuff on and in place, then I'll be able to see where the controls and bodywork can fit.

Primary drive first. It's a seperate case. I've dropped the gearbox sprocket from 16 to 14 teeth. This may not be enough but it's somewhere to work from. The drive sprocket is an integral part of the brake drum/hub so it's expensive and fiddly to alter this on a whim. It also means having a bolt-on sprocket with pretty thin margins round the bolt holes, they have been known to fail.

There are a couple of other ways of dealin with this. One is trials gear clusters which gives you super-low 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear ratios but 4th remains standard at 1:1. Another way is to fit a smaller engine sprocket, but this gets expensive because the primary chain would also need to be changed. So I'll see how it goes.

The alternator stator needs to be spaced out from the rotor. You can sit and fiddle for hours with brass (non-magnetic) feeler guages OR slide half a dozen aluminium drinks can shims in there to get the correct air gap.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3sJjfGqdgzfYJP5hJSSadOlz2sN6JqM7rkgfe1FnBQAbP4tlVqPJMpQw0h7AHhv4oYXV49LaAQ5FpZOyQ7FEEc66gbel3pB8SCCOpUKokOyofvPdokpyQY9uaB5Ufg4eT9fZOqrr3Q=w1155-h866-no

All just lego other than that, bolting stuff on with new gaskets and oil seals. I've used a ceramic ball bearing in the clutch push-rod again, there was significant blueing on the rod showing a lot of heat has been building up, this tends to make the steel pushrod elongate and makes the clutch slip.Ceramic bearings are very poor conductors of heat.

Primary drive in place, pleased to see my bash-plate looks like it will do the job nicely.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qQVCw_3X2iqr-l3T4CkE9d1oeTPXXo-XVOb429czYekeMA8D-PX_Xdrw0aWA92sfmfk-CSJNabgCYPn-MojjqMnWBlxD6pxWpkgfUjbLOM--Hju7O_Nja79ynVX7aNB-xWgiRL3LPQ=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JtyqSzS8ldymNyhMR1Zfsts65QqvXlQ-IRQ4oUTcY9_GuONWSgRIt7rzAwsjf5QK9fsL7Zdj8uQ9WcwlgCt0bB2z67RCXvEOFBxOuJz01tjmP2T2uy9WWm5fkctwdAkOr0PnZ87BIQ=w1155-h866-no

I've also fitted new rocker oil feed pipes, the carb and the exhaust. the latter took a degree of hammering and swearing to get it all aligned. I may need to resort to silicone sealant round the push-fit manifold but I'll give it some time, they do tend to "bed-in" once they've been bolted up, vibrated and heat-cycled a few times.

I may need to fit a heat-shield/exhaust wrap on the silencer depending on where the pegs finish up.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kuZTa2vsebzi1twFk8BIQ2CO5qErJsGUtU-wW7zmnfv16Wuuv0To3UCBLt5JTOTSzLJ2jm6mWRvdZPQrZ3J9FjSOeZTOQRg17hnxmakGh8vWw965HpKOGnDdM0g_sKKhZ6touFmvrA=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uy68o5ucu5LuYNqzZ2-6EgW_2iv5TxnyVedK1vtgYPJaoOXQbpUu6zxg07fX7DlgnOzDVBRitPmYBHefowU7-qFUgftIbiO6ocq81K9ik0VRAS0U7KcAONt6wDr7gZIBk3m1W8-img=w1155-h866-no
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 27 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to sneak in a garage day today.

I've cleaned up, repainted and fitted new fasteners to the pillion pegs since my last post. With them properly bolted in, I had a good bounce up and down on them and they didn't move. I think they'll probably stay put unless I land it hard enough to bottom everything and it'll probably have me off if that happens anyway. Even if they do move, they'll just pivot down about 4" which isn't going to have me off the bike.

So repositioned footpegs means I need a repositioned brake lever. You're pretty much looking at fabricating something new from scratch in this instance. A lot of people will make a "rearset" type footplate with the peg and lever on and weld it to the frame. I'm trying not to do anything irreversible to the frame and the existing pivot point looked like it might just do with a bit of imagination.

This is one of these jobs you look at for a long time. Then make some carbdoard cutouts, then think a bit longer.

Eventually I came up with this. It's just bent out of flatbar but there is enough triangulation to mean it's as stiff as you would want. I had to get a local machinist to turn out the ID of the tube because you couldn't get off the shelf stuff the right size for the existing pivot point.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6xUf7wHE17YGZIl8VUuglBlqBaHImB4tfyCOoEFg2mrk-ul4CiA28SaWtcAZI-tzozV08BRceu0d8CJ_odFcb4pg-7aa9-kUdIlkhAN3QMGg0Hdeohr7LciOJg_31xkGHmAn2kO17w=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2y9UecjljEpTbiKzcKueguNqPp1qqn4pdVvXPNVSCwTqBL6XDeVDRuUYbmFn2fykDk0Ymv3eg_lB8ylj8etYyohDPcdwPo4g7_FH72OYUC_BPl_BEv3J0nPQ_gcmF4JJLA4p2am-Cg=w1155-h866-no

The welds are by yours truly who has not had much practice but I'm actually quite chuffed I didn't just blow a load of holes in the thinner steel with my wee stick welder. It all looks a tad wonky because it was made to freehand cardboard templates. It'll all look a lot better once it's painted though.

I got the idea for the allen-head grips from bicycle pedals.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jQGbOv9L8SEU0_OTxWIchEcrEtrvP5aHlSBr_l_LtRT03l8uYwkoOHk7sVKoOCh-yc0m6lXfkcb783ZGU5VHw3OlKl0g3oKEmTkt0hig4-53i58zEbgoj1-oIht9NUebpCCABC7Wnw=w1155-h866-no

Then attaches to the brake rod using an off the shelf clevis joint.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/st6HoROe-9Au5WRElZ8LovLxzZOtRV870JIWoBuxdIhag3Xx2YWKd31CaVqePZvpMCsK0LMnthN4_GyX1Zv5WckU9zl1A80qy9vxvsidyQlq5bJMLwASagM2_JeajTUwUfTtcJ-B2w=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N_OBodbpQyHSjf4sLzd33g8ZA0imhWYidDk8UOY0nDkQKaI71oLZx2M42TkUs7CODw60n4NYDeQQTqWkEm2WIiyg64jHR4kv8om_Ef8aXjevolbgAG_hPFyZ0mFmqJRTwIG0rxkWbw=w1155-h866-no

The bit of flat bar sticking up between the clevis joint and lock-nut is to butt against the standard stop-tab on the bike frame to prevent the pedal coming too far up.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zSukToymgwIjexnSZerq_mIpJZGYQEcFeg9EKba7Zg6oOex24t3zUhJetNqUiFJxkSQKtBQaIfEL-3Qs5mzbBtRH__OjsRPq5RC880LE5ywINHbBe8Jl44fz4KdM9ue4rMj6lW4r-g=w1155-h866-no

I used a piece of EN1A bar to make a new brake rod. Doesn't need to be hugely strong as it's acting in tension. One HELL of a lot easier to cut a thread on by hand than EN8! I'll shrink-tube it to stop it rusting.

Very pleased with the overall result.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EHic_38mtBe0c1E5vr5XhVCjSBxYP8-FF32DxLBOtbKl64egBJwDlGkV0NVPwYVKjunC4-WT5CLSGlsFvkyB2iK4LfJexc3B25Wf640aTOHCl7Een06IxZsliPkE752eODUzUBc2UQ=w1155-h866-no

Next things to look at are the chain guard, speedo (which will need moving to the rear wheel due to my half-width front hub) and wiring. The more visually astute may notice odds and sods of electrical componants are already attached, this is so I can stand and look at it and decide whee things need to be.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how you took the time to make sure none of the hex head bolts aligned Wink but yes, looks right at home when fitted to the bike.

Good shout on the brake rod. Heat shrink tube: like plasti-dip without the dip Smile Must take a look at mine...
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I love how you took the time to make sure none of the hex head bolts aligned Wink but yes, looks right at home when fitted to the bike.


In my defence, they were aligned when I marked out the piece and punched it but my cheap-arse Chinese drill press then takes those markings and wanders wherever the hell it wants with them. I really must throw it in a skip sometime soon.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been doing wiring today.

On my last bullet project, I used an enfield "tea caddy" air filter box mounted on the opposite side for the battery and a fair bit of the wiring. This worked well and looks meant so it's something I've decided to replicate. It'll help keep the wiring clean and dry too. It normally attaches to the carb with a rubber tube attached to a metal spoutand has a paper element filter in it. There are two "compartments" and the bottom attaches with a bit of threaded rod running up the middle. The bracket can be simply swapped from one side to the other.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TRwEqDs6Zk8-B7OCINvqIzZfSuFQqSEScuTYXIyuu3cyTueYYy5YvSI-wrfwF62__66RsW2PRxAARFZyFhji8dTQi5ypMb3K2G5jalqAiIDggTMAJ8fd6B_Oae_O-vVrEi8SkdQ4Kg=w1155-h866-no

So my idea was to have the battery and fuse wiring in the "bottom" compartment as well as the connections from the alternator and points. Then hide the birds-nest of wiring from the reg/rec, A/C regulator, Coil, Brake switch and rear sub-loom in the top compartment.

i cut out and folded a spare bit of ally chequer-plate for the base of the box and fitted a grommet to run the alternator wires in through.

I found an even dinkier battery than I used on the 612 bullet. It fits snugly in the bottom compartment of the tea caddy and is narrow enough to clear the bit of threaded bar. I soldered two flying leads onto the terminals because I've had issues with the spade connectors coming adrift on the 612. It has direct lighting so the only thing the battery runs is the ignition and the sidelights/brake light which will be LEDs. As such, draw will be minimal. Just really needs to be enough to excite the coil for starting, it'll keep up itself after that.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EhWKh9IEsTN-qr9TYCK04sr2ukcQKHFmLenrgkNhU2G5aH8g5xTxSHwEX84jj_Bt36gD1JusTNAeC_04SF2Yp1-xHgEPc22Ta5Hs4UPyWxSKZPw59JorsHzIn_yzV7xwCXZoH9NPlA=w1155-h866-no

Could have been made for the job. I won't even need brackets or clamps because it's such a snug fit. I think I'll fit a sleeve over the threaded bar to prevent it sawing through the casing though.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Har3-c2hmRSkmnNdDhbV7NML_GKYHW3WmBzhBSS03vDujrvKyfUQHWtn2yVMmrO0kvhlwEJPzKalDlkKzbKXK6jt7_fsVccuUhJG3huO9bRvwyx8r5XuKc27cyaw9ps86FYMsSi4_A=w1155-h866-no

The wiring is a bit of a fanny because of the AC/DC system. I'm not using the flashers so that's a lot less to worry about. I'm making extensive use of multicore cable. The main loom is a bit of 10-core (of which I'm using 9). I decided to do a proper diagram for this because the colours can get confusing. With multicore, you get what you're given so I've had to swap about colours a fair bit.

This diagram isn't neat as some. It's more done so I can see physically where the wires go and where those connections are rather than to see how they are connected electrically. So the stuff inside the dotted box is all in the battery box, the stuff to the right is all on the rear mudguard or taillight, the stuff to the left is all on the front of the bike with the connectors in the headlamp shell.

All done on Libre-office Draw.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/FP50-aTOOMnO5Krsps0VPdlAtkr9et9ePKB0Ig1kvh_-xbTs6V7FmOQYL_OA16a6QVZ_MXj1GImsPxASSiGAwz3UAtC06i_F75klmhZbQzth5cwQm5JgT_26HnDimOGwbAoGUcHWEg=w1123-h794-no

I've made all the wires long enough so the connectors can be moved outside the box if needed then pushed back in again. I had issues on the other bike with a couple of connectors that came undone and they were a nightmare to reconnect inside the box. I even remembered to put the alternator wiring through the base of the box before connecting them!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dAsYT2-Kqqk-ZgZLjKhZ6FRPX1WwAwkxs3tK5d1tHkCvelOeLXE2TQDaXgfD4rH_07TtOYqlonMgq-CmkfM_C1i8Lru1QdUaWLqqnMbtcoAg8PXqgsHWFebLxOVqCJMq_xB5tpsoQA=w1155-h866-no

Several hours later and I have all the main componants attached and stowed in the box. Single 10-core cable to run to the headlamp. A 4-core to the rear lights and a 2-core for the rear brake and coil.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dQe74Nyny_cQX3j3m-DwA8-iZjUqFTD_ZPr_Gfh3IzoHAwbMt1o1zdUVZ11uhnS_DR6H5yMKMaszB9S-_NMLt5uqPSpSD8RT8p4riy_UZEwP_z9PvvQH7aVapnQCe39MTud4VlfBLQ=w1155-h866-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/suTqQPntPKvIsftrbzprV0pDVL-h86d-e4fiPEhpEyKW_KJCOqQKouyguknHp3hqdVMsoHtg4_hcsP9kASEuNLDUt7tsbhOkh7bdcscowT3p9eDQDBc4XLDD1cqtCOyvRvL8d81rbg=w1155-h866-no

The two regulators are mounted under the seat. Reg/Rec is off a ZX6R.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xKb0ejindoc76jtu0T5MC-omi0M8qjQxguOs2q1Izgo841Yv5nd1Wluk0i19ESAW40IzHx8NzL0_8SZVHGoN9Yrv30g5OYYk_ibe9S9Th2Dv_0NH_Cu-NufRHqydWIJMpBdOdsUrvA=w1155-h866-no

The ignition coil is on the "clean" side of the back mudguard. These are the cleanest and driest bits of the bike in use.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4ILBWVgArDTOrEzkDcakbdSk655XRgn7YwdhM1Z88FhvS2NP8_DIHhGPM6QjwXA0Jr4ErdBQiVWuL_DtmTsHljOSyiRD7J99WNQhtXPkzpT02rS07ZevWvWqeaPF1Dk9GdctgIwR4Q=w1155-h866-no

I may put a "plug" of silicone in the opening of the tea-caddy too for extra weather proofing. I considered fitting a stuffing gland but it would have made for a royal pain in the arse getting all the connectors in and out after fitting them. It does face backwards though and is in the area sheltered by the mudguard.

Next bit will be hooking in the lights, switchgear and the lighting relay module I designed earlier. I'll probably use a standard japanese rear brake switch on a bracket somewhere, there are plenty of frame lugs to work from. Need to have a think about that though.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I suggest TinyCad for producing circuit diagrams.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
May I suggest TinyCad for producing circuit diagrams.


Does it do coloured wires?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
May I suggest TinyCad for producing circuit diagrams.


Does it do coloured wires?


Yes. It looks a bit archaic (the user interface) but it's free and you can add extra libraries of symbols.

I created this with it:

https://i.imgur.com/DVlTICn.png
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