350 bullet Trials redux

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

According to Mr H, 1st, 2nd and 3rd are lower ratios than on the 4-speed. Top gear is, as ever, straight through and 4th fills in the gap normally experienced between 3rd and 4th.

4 Speed ratios: 1st = 2.78:1, 2nd = 1.84:1, 3rd = 1.36:1, 4th = 1:1.

5 Speed ratios: 1st = 3.06:1, 2nd = 2.01:1, 3rd = 1.52:1, 4th = 1.21:1, 5th = 1:1.

4 Speed Trials: 1st = 3.19:1, 2nd = 1.97:1, 3rd = 1.46:1, 4th = 1:1.

4 Speed CR: 1st = 2.50:1, 2nd = 1.66:1, 3rd = 1.23:1, 4th = 1.:1

5-speed box on standard gearing is looking like a pretty good option for you. remember you'll need a new clutch hub.

I'd imagine for road use most people would go up a tooth on the front sprocket when they fit a 5-speed, otherwise that 1st is unecessarily low
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

wr6133 · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Definate room for improvement then. What you planning? 535 and race cams? Or something softer for ffroad use?

If it's on an Indian piston and you intend to ride it like a proper motorcycle, get it swapped out for something that's not going to collpase its crown.

It's very clean. Last gen iron barrel 500 motor judging by the type of dipstick.

Apparently the '03/'04 motors lend themselves best to a 612 conversion, they have extra webbing cast into the crankcases.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

wr6133 · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Karma :

New old spare. It had the crate but that fell apart when I was collecting it.

I would love to 612 it but it's going to be sold. I just got 11 boxes of parts, gearboxes, wheels, tanks, swingarms, 2 500 trials bikes and a sidecar. I need to sell 1 bike and the headline stuff like gearboxes and this engine to recoup some of the outlay.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

There isn't a wide swingarm in your spares is there?

The chainstays on the standard ones taper out as they go back. You sometimes get modified/specials where they are more paralell to one another which allows easy fitment of a knobbly 4.00 rear. You can only just get a 3.75 in mine.

Any nice single seats?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

wr6133 · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Karma :

Easy-X · Super Spammer Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :

Will the bike your selling be a runner?
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wr6133 · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Karma :

WD Forte · World Chat Champion Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :

Out of curiosity
Do these Indian REs use metric or imperial threads?
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stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

A100man · World Chat Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :

Easy-X · Super Spammer Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :

WD Forte · World Chat Champion Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

What makes it really interesting is that some of them are so poorly machined on epically worn tooling, they do not measure up as what they are if you put a thread guage on them, nor does a properly cut example fit. You have to go back to the parts book and check.

So for example, having made up new engine barrel studs out of EN8, I then had to re-tap the holes in the crankcase because the thread OD was too small to accept the new studs.

The biggest headfuck I found was on the rocker block studs. They have a 1/4" BSC thread. However two of the studs on each block have a 17/64" ground diameter so they act as locating dowels.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

virus · World Chat Champion Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Quick job. I noticed that the wires on the alternator stator were starting to crack. These lucas ones are potted but that's a mixed blessing because it also means you can't get at bits to replace them. There is little to no strain relief on the cables coming out of them and it would appear the insulation doesn't like being splashed with hot oil. I'd like to have seen this running up in a bit of conduit or armoured outer.

Every time you remove it, it cracks a little more. I now have exposed copper.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ejF2PZKXJ8czQIbUBuG5HS6ze2RK6iFe75-JFlUg6VRZOycgHhO1Z1InQDMquzD4zJYslI1P5ufnkZ6MpRKEANVtYka2TogWNoC50Zy9_U0wNm7wRj60WJ3Svp7j_RbgRzVubKAcld84TzgtEZqzny=w1312-h860-no

After a thorough de-grease, and slotting a bit of card in to prevent me bonding the rotor to the stator, I applied G-flex epoxy.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dE7qOh_8Z_JVWKm0Ofb_IRIolmztKgIGqidXM3QY_gt0G_mo6M7f8nD8J8cVnEP6MA0ztVcvKG4HYuClHs09ljiZihKfMaFEiWVTOgu4JwqQIdJFP2sdAsvfPARcv_QK7MgA4YFo94hKBKTO95Diqv=w1529-h860-no

Then trimmed off the excess with a stanley knife. I did it in-situ so the bend on the wires was correct, there isn't much clearance because the alternator on the primary was an afterthought, when these bikes were first made, they had a magneto running off the timing side, there was just the engine sprocket on this end of the crank.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dX57rZZLOemyrkY31b0a6rzPoDPDQzRquxyRIN2Jn1wv478FDOygP2M-AFLaQNw8HUYAw-07KKhOyTcfY97zMyhuGKoGeQ-OKoHYJT5ag88-Oi7yr_SvyVk6Z_xlDn-BDBdIXR1eipHyvcZMh1hBHf=w1529-h860-no

The rotor has to be correctly spaced from the stator. You can piss on with feeler guages or just shim it out with slices of aluminium beer can (not steel because magnets).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eLpd-SJ3BoaQkpj4qkAe3nqpGogFRbAYl3gpbeL-W6NoTb_0iSs-_y4uP6Fy7ATHpkyTwD0JgXyya5jbqDQOSiUHN4m-1bmdNaHjpLWjcH16kQAlTqpgEh3JHsqJ0JmTy1bAhq8zRA446FsvfuBNXZ=w1529-h860-no

Tension the primary chain.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c0fgPioHkH0XvhE9phCyYkAGrpAi6IIuYsCwe4u3nMPno3vXEF-6vgWRoEbv_gAwhPA4TdzR4zT_xEhlwAo7HUva6HNoL36GIDyUK8QT1LrPjzV6iKeCnO4RDdcfD14HAYdw614F4n1YJyJf8_RrxT=w1529-h860-no

The cover is held on with one nut against a huge o-ring. Mine has started getting a bit drippy. The usual cause is overtightening the nut and deforming the cover but I think in this case, it's just the o-ring is compressed and needs replacing.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c6bYVQ5GDN1wviKzwjYxzMKUy37h45I77szCniSqKWT_i5DyQ9ibmhE4Cq03vkZEz1RuhJcF6CZ4_8TadkpZbQSKm1R4sPK5gHPQhxGwW8D6nMmG603SwZdKHP8Bb8nZxW03QRwZ_x5O1BrfeAa5q0=w1529-h860-no

What lubricants to use in a bullet is a hotly debated topic on forums. The book says to use 15w-50 oil in the primary drive. I am using ATF. The type F had no additional friction modifiers which might upset the barely adequate clutch. The theory is the ATF will get splashed around plenty without foaming and is also designed to take a real hammering in a transmission so you can double the service interval.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e2RD8i1oGCXhX5Cz0pedBVJNiXkV6x3E7Dsoslessm5_WyQ9Q-XtcvhBqxwU04ayknwc5UgVBxz7SnhJwbUNGJP9I1YzRjLUNlSl0S29MomiMUD7c7tJ92aN2fvfPjJc83dCzxVsZ5zVHEDLWMsy4z=w1529-h860-no

Nearly done. Need my brake pivot/chain tensioner thingy. I'll noise my fabricator guy up through the week and see if he's done it yet.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Brake pivot chain tension roller thingy has arrived.

The problem was that with longer shocks, the imperfect alignment of the swingarm pivot, gearbox sprocket and wheel hub is knocked progressively further and further put of alignment.

This misalignment means that the chain tension is altered further and further by the movement of the swingarm. On the standard setup is's not very much at all, on 45mm over standard shocks, it's quite a lot. Enough to make the chain dangerously loose at full extension if it's as tight as you dare go without locking up at full compression.

The standard solution is a sprung roller to tension the chain. Most of these seem either flimsy, expensive or tricky to fit. Or all three.

I was looking for a cheap and robust solution and noted that through pure chance, the brake lever pivot was handily positioned sucgh that if it was extended out under the chain on the inside of the frame, the chain would rest on it when the suspension was fully extneded but not when it is fully compressed.

So I had this made:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cmF0TKjCHVTuRhMqUZp2SwsWTCYPq7reNKJgff6i5xsbVxfAUCE7vghXOZ3mZ5dMMvyDyuDSvTF3SIETpZyxAR9RixFs9PnBKns-3v1QmCAkiAw5cO2zl8V3IDX5n2b2-_RCX863D2RkGMk0K4IBrr=w1529-h860-no

It's EN8 so way stronger than the original. it took a while because it's got oddball threads (7/16" BSCy) and I don't have a lathe. I also found a neat and inexpensive industrial nylon roller with sealed ball bearings fitted (think skateboard wheel).

Fitted on the bike:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3drEtQN7gyF0ysaswfg6Orr2g1zAmA4E9lFQ39_-oHUNkuFir6oMPHV5dNDdUYL5VcKNS6PaIBPp-BA2y7vbwAELdXJNsWE-OtjkD_62bwgrzKnk8hAhrLFM8PC2J3GseFNuMiKujjQzs6VpBSmsk45=w1529-h860-no

Roller in place. This is with the suspension under static sag only, you can see how much tension the roller is adding.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fC4KGiBwI8EPIUZ97UwU942WbB8hgYEm59xz9QPeHiqHKsKhaoLVqNzC35Mk3jmNj6lFBumnMhF01ib4KDSYhNAP5L4nT8zMuX9RryFRxDfXedv6CWu0wXmJQKhDrVz3GZnBw2H6ZlUKaGZq0NIV6G=w1529-h860-no

Conversely, here's the chain alignment with the suspension nearkly at full compression.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f4kQVJlCWGZGK8TwnwmFt4ODajV3PKFycuhn7eO1aFKN380lM3rmzKladIA8dB7PRTMKrQ66FSsZu0Xq8BIqNfRqOfu_qxkLLHMa5iHLBK-rTbZeRCOagMNPmp2XbdBEK9ykVfEA_P_Z6z2-OGi23_=w1529-h860-no

And with the brake lever in place. The pivot needs a little easing with some emery paper but better too tight than too loose.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cNoA5FUX94wfPovnuFXigbPqLz24W4I4XxlcxEsMQSUkOE40CstnRoCvvt2Paoa-k0aVTG1u1jkhdEJiHCKnhgzPEuX7ilVlx5GYjE6ccmq8yQTSDosLgksJ2iewRHCJbfMI9bH9NKxY40xy1Vqniz=w1529-h860-no
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

did you get hit with Import tax on the stuff from india? I have a footrest set arriving from there soon for my RXS.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

It's pretty much a free-for-all when goods arrive in the UK unless they are coming with a specific courier all the way. Whoever gets them first just grabs them then charges the duty and handling fee.

It's more of a problem with higher value goods. My Dads company had real issues with this and actually appointed a specific company to deal with their imports (all coming into Harwich) who charged a pre-negotiated handling fee. They arranged that all the goods were to be clearly marked with details of this company on the outer packaging.

Still had other companies grabbing the goods, denying all knowledge and pretty much holding them to ransom. I got the impression the appointed company was not above sending a couple of big guys round to go and get the goods back once they were informed who had them.

All in all, it's a bun-fight and always has been.

It's much simpler sending goods TO India. You just put a large brown envelope containing about £100 in cash near the top of the crate and everything sails through customs like a well oiled machine.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

wr6133 · World Chat Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Karma :

That looks much better and more secure than those Sammy Miller Tesco shopping trolley things people buy.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Gearbox works. Wheel goes round. It is now slower than before in first and faster than before in top which has to be a win.

Law of unintended consequences. The rear brake was applying itself when I went over bumps. Just a function of the new swingarm angle and it being a ridgid brake rod. I re-fitted the original, shorter brake arm to the rear hub and that seems to have done the trick, bringing the brake rod more para\lell to the axis of the swingarm. It was a bit easy to lock-up anyway.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ewLw-jWo6553BH-Wr_8YAaWmFYDipLj2xKUWaol7vQlB02BwjSm20BfgXHPxJxAAL82pGPT2OsiIxUDILsKPwSz_CJB2B4KJ5aPbuv4EUGdJH4tx90lHwPZ-clyHgb6KvXwyTnkd5_jVgG8zGxQw1M=w499-h886-no

However, be careful of celebrating too soon.

The increased extension and travel of the swingarm alters the relationship between the brake rod and the swingarm. The net result is it tightens the brake up slightly as the suspension compresses (it does normally but not really enough to be noticeable).

So, I did a celebratory jump off a fairly high kerb on the way home, landed it fairly heavily and compressed the suspension. This locked up the rear brake.

It turns out the grip of a Heidenau trials tyre under full suspension at 5mph is greater than the tensile strength of 7/16" bolts and swingatrm sideplates!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cEzB0MQJ_QU1Lxb8BGJN6cFBkMhHbvxo7jPJE6mIQFm0IyTzqfn9876O-GrAtxPmmTauT4Gy7jqj8Cptr3w4Zvddfh2iMSd7DoRiAj5GREsEZ-Sn7gpEtkmd8sgs1LlZXq-hdRyEeaHycG68I6Jot-=w1576-h886-no

The EN8. M8 brake rod is totally mullered, bent like plasticine. That snapped bolt you see is the brake pivot. Not even any real sign of a flaw, it just sheared! Then ripped itself out of the swingarm.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dECQREIyT9m0SmnChknDgyZHEIifq5rrKueo2S90CLhSQpT7ILV7by2jc6NBhvv_SSr6SR7jSfpz_h8_p7P0VRgy9zL61AAvuIM127WtE-KNsj3pu8kb_YmMcQB2Hu1jSVmMELwQ5zWcxloCgfsd_m=w1576-h886-no

New pivot ordered, swingarm hammered flat between my steel striking block and smiths hammer, new brake rod under construction.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.