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| duhawkz |
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duhawkz
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 Posted: 00:37 - 20 Nov 2019  Post subject: |
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I have often wondered if smart devices are listening to more then they should be, I have seen adverts on facebook for things that I have talked about earlier in the day.
now I am not convinced, I have 2 sono ones connected to amazons alexa and I have just reviewed the voice recordings on my amazon account, mainly because of this tread. looking back over the last month there isn't anything in there that I wouldn't be expect to be there.
"alexa turn the heating on"
"alexa play November rain by guns and roses"
"alexa turn the volume up"
that sort of thing.
there's certainly nothing I'm not comfortable sharing anyway, they only send the instruction (the few seconds after the word alexa) to amazons servers anyway.
I've also seen a number of reports by security companies who have looked into smart devices listening into us, and they have come back saying that the devices don't listen in.
https://www.consumerreports.org/smartphones/is-your-smartphone-secretly-listening-to-you/
it would be fairly easy to prove anyway if your inclined to, simply set up a proxy server on your network and send all your outbound internet traffic through it, then you'll be able to see exactly what is going where.
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| duhawkz |
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 00:50 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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there are plenty of other ways that they harvest your data such as cookies, gps data, Facebook, twitter, your google account, mailing lists etc.
who even bothers to read the cookie messages, that blight every website you visit anyway?
Facebook was another one where people had claimed it was surreptitiously recording calls and call data, When I downloaded the data that they held on me I wasn't surprised by what i saw, there wasn't any calls or text msgs in there, just the data that I had willingly and knowingly upload.
I'm not suggesting that they are not shady fuckers, just that we probably unwittingly give them enough access to our lives without them having to resort covertly recording us without our permission
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| Posted: 11:11 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: | I have often wondered if smart devices are listening to more then they should be, I have seen adverts on facebook for things that I have talked about earlier in the day.
now I am not convinced, I have 2 sono ones connected to amazons alexa and I have just reviewed the voice recordings on my amazon account, mainly because of this tread. looking back over the last month there isn't anything in there that I wouldn't be expect to be there.
"alexa turn the heating on"
"alexa play November rain by guns and roses"
"alexa turn the volume up"
that sort of thing.
there's certainly nothing I'm not comfortable sharing anyway, they only send the instruction (the few seconds after the word alexa) to amazons servers anyway.
I've also seen a number of reports by security companies who have looked into smart devices listening into us, and they have come back saying that the devices don't listen in.
https://www.consumerreports.org/smartphones/is-your-smartphone-secretly-listening-to-you/
it would be fairly easy to prove anyway if your inclined to, simply set up a proxy server on your network and send all your outbound internet traffic through it, then you'll be able to see exactly what is going where. |
You assume that Amazon show you all the data they collect about you and not just the stuff they are OK with you knowing about.
That's a bit trusting isn't it?
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| duhawkz |
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 12:56 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: | As I have already mentioned, it's trivial to set up a proxy and analyze all the data going out.
Do you not think that if they were surreptitiously recording everything it would have been exposed by now.
And if it was exposed that they were doing so, it would totally undermine trust in those devices and therefore destroy the market for them? |
How would it be exposed? I should imagine there'd be some pretty potent corporate non disclosure agreements in place, wouldn't you?
What prompted this topic, was a couple of people at the pub who swear their Facebook feeds etc filled up with adverts about topics they insist had talked about in front of a Google Alexa device, yet not yet mentioned or searched the topic online.
It seems they're not alone in this theory too.
I don't have one and disable all voice control on all my devices. I'd rather not take the risk. Even if the constant record is only truggered by "hey Alexa" or whatever as standard, the potential for authorities or criminals to now see and hear what happens in any household, is much easier than it was in the age of planting bugs and hidden cameras.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/11/technology/google-home-mini-security-flaw/index.html
Oops...
| Quote: | A major flaw has been detected in the newly-unveiled Google Home Mini speaker that allows it to secretly record conversations without users knowing. |
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linuxyeti
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 14:46 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: |
As I have already mentioned, it's trivial to set up a proxy and analyze all the data going out.
Stick wireshark, burpsuit, ZAP or a.n.other tool inbetween the device and the internet which will allow you to see exactly what it being sent by the device. |
About as trivial as setting up the device so it has the capability of circumventing your proxy with a VPN or other method, such as it's own independent Internet connection for the quiet stuff to be broadcast on. A 4G modem can be quite small now.
| duhawkz wrote: | Where does the NDA come into it? |
If they were sneaking info out for their on benefit, some employees in the organisation will know. An NDA would be quite a threat if anyone revealed any corporate secrets of this kind.
I notice Windows 10 lately asks you a series of questions during setup. The targeted ads one is a bit suspicious as it clearly refers to more than tracking cookies. So cookies aside, how exactly is Microsoft targeting ads at you, which it thinks relevant?
Most of this will be buried somewhere in the 350 terms and conditions which nobody in the real world would ever read before agreeing to.
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 16:08 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Do you honestly think that Amazon will go to the trouble of adding a covert 4g modem in to it echo, and that nobody would notice?
Seriously?
Do you not think that there are people out there who reverse engineer electronics for fun and profit?.
https://youtu.be/QsZsu4GJ82Q
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Posted: 16:53 - 20 Nov 2019  Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: | Do you honestly think that Amazon will go to the trouble of adding a covert 4g modem in to it echo, and that nobody would notice?
Seriously?
Do you not think that there are people out there who reverse engineer electronics for fun and profit?.
https://youtu.be/QsZsu4GJ82Q |
I wouldn't put it past them to be able to broadcast stuff back that people with your proxy idea won't be able to detect, such as end to end encrypted transmissions. The 4G suggestion was extreme, but showing that nothing is out of the realms of possibility now and for very little cost. Many products now are using 4G and soon 5G to "phone home", from smart meters to cars.
Knowledge is power for these companies and knowledge comes from gathering as much personal information from you as possible. When was the last time you setup a copy of Windows or Office? Microsoft want your entire life story now to setup Windows 10 Home and won't allow it to be setup anymore without a "Microsoft Account" which needs verifying with a genuine and unfakeable phone number, plus 3 questions about your upbringing choosing and answering. How many fake these?
It really is getting a bit Big Brother and Matrix, we're just not noticing quite how far this is moving over the last 10 years or so and how online connected to a virtual world we actually are now.
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 18:04 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: |
Even with E2E encryption, you still be able to see the packets on the wire. And while you wouldn't be able to read the contents you'd still be able to see the source, destination and the size of the packets, with that you'd be able to work out whether it was recording/transmitting everything or just specific events. |
So you'd be able to see an Internet connected Google device sending and receiving unknown info to and from Google? Wow, stop the press.
There's activity on my Virgin router when both the TV and Internet devices are off. If you think the only activity on these Google home mini's will be when they are questioning Google for answers, think again. Also, what's stopping them from saving the recording data and sliding it in during the genuine connection sessions?
I'm surprised you're so trusting of Google and the rest, to be honest. Either that or you just like an argument. 
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duhawkz
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| Posted: 18:15 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Of course there'll be other traffic thats why you leave it running in a quiet room to establish a baseline 
Also I never said I trusted them, just that I don't believe that they are covertly recording everything we say.
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| Posted: 18:31 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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| duhawkz wrote: | Of course there'll be other traffic thats why you leave it running in a quiet room to establish a baseline |
Oh man.... give it a rest. You have no way of knowing of anything is being sent back without your knowledge. I've already highlighted where Google Home Mini's have been caught doing this.
| duhawkz wrote: | Also I never said I trusted them, just that I don't believe that they are covertly recording everything we say. |
You don't "believe" or you don't "know"? I don't have one, I'm just saying that I've now heard several people tell me their social media feeds have become flooded with ads, for topics they claim to have been talking about, but not browsing or searching for.
There's certainly more to targeted ads now than tracking cookies alone. The question is what else is used now?
Some of this is as vague as f*ck...
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/7072285?hl=en-GB
| Quote: | What data does Google collect?
Google collects data that's meant to make our services faster, smarter, more relevant and more useful to you. Google Home learns over time to provide better and more personalised suggestions and answers. You can learn more by visiting Google's Privacy Policy. |
https://policies.google.com/privacy#infocollect
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 152 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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