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duhawkz
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
No you've shown me an article where a fault was causing the device to activate as if someone has pushed the button.

The recordings were present in the guys google account plain as day.

Thats not even remotely similar to being caught covertly recording everything we say.
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
But I thought it was impossible for it to record and send back to Google without your permission?!

Clearly not...


They are reported to record accidentally quite a lot. So you could end up with huge amounts of your conversations stored by accident.

duhawkz wrote:
mpd72 wrote:

I wouldn't put it past them to be able to broadcast stuff back that people with your proxy idea won't be able to detect, such as end to end encrypted transmissions.


Even with E2E encryption, you still be able to see the packets on the wire. And while you wouldn't be able to read the contents you'd still be able to see the source, destination and the size of the packets, with that you'd be able to work out whether it was recording/transmitting everything or just specific events.


While I do agree with your general point there are ways around that. E.g you encrypt the data with AES client side, encrypt the AES key with a public key client side, then send all of that via Cloudflare. You can't read the data and you can't practically recover the key and it could be going to anywhere because its just disappearing into a CDN.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I analyse network traffic all the time. Wireshark and Fiddler may be worth a look although they're not the most user friendly programs if you don't have a background in networking.

As far as how much Amazon and Google are listening to what you're saying... yes, all the time, so they can sell you shit. But recording everything and forwarding it all onto GCHQ? I doubt it. However, it wouldn't surprise me if someone on a government watch list had their devices "hacked" to do so but that's on a case-by-case basis.

No, you can't listen in on all the conversations in the country and then arrest everyone as basically everyone would be in jail and there'd be no one left to listen to anything.
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 03:16 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
I analyse network traffic all the time. Wireshark and Fiddler may be worth a look although they're not the most user friendly programs if you don't have a background in networking.

As far as how much Amazon and Google are listening to what you're saying... yes, all the time, so they can sell you shit. But recording everything and forwarding it all onto GCHQ? I doubt it. However, it wouldn't surprise me if someone on a government watch list had their devices "hacked" to do so but that's on a case-by-case basis.

No, you can't listen in on all the conversations in the country and then arrest everyone as basically everyone would be in jail and there'd be no one left to listen to anything.


Need a warrant for that.
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duhawkz
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:

While I do agree with your general point there are ways around that. E.g you encrypt the data with AES client side, encrypt the AES key with a public key client side, then send all of that via Cloudflare. You can't read the data and you can't practically recover the key and it could be going to anywhere because its just disappearing into a CDN.


For the purposes of proving its sending more then it should be, it wouldn't really matter where it was sending the data, all you need do is demonstrate that the amount of data increases when you're talking in its general vicinity.

Someone has done it here - https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/
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Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:

While I do agree with your general point there are ways around that. E.g you encrypt the data with AES client side, encrypt the AES key with a public key client side, then send all of that via Cloudflare. You can't read the data and you can't practically recover the key and it could be going to anywhere because its just disappearing into a CDN.


For the purposes of proving its sending more then it should be, it wouldn't really matter where it was sending the data, all you need do is demonstrate that the amount of data increases when you're talking in its general vicinity.

Someone has done it here - https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/


It wouldn't have to work like that. It could either send data constantly, or collect it up and send it at random. Surveillence data wouldn't have to be sent as it is collected, more efficient to process it further and compress it down.

I say would be that is probably how they do it for real. It's not done on mass but we do know that the NSA and GCHQ engage in equipment interference on phones to do this kind of thing. You would like some proof though, of course Wink

Equipment Interference Code of Practice
Pursuant to Section 71 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000

1.6. This code applies to (i) any interference5 (whether remotely or otherwise) by the Intelligence Services, or persons acting on their behalf or in their support, with equipment6 producing electromagnetic, acoustic and other emissions, and (ii) information derived from any such interference, which is to be authorised under section 5 of the 1994 Act, in order to do any or all of the following: (a) obtain information from the equipment in pursuit of intelligence requirements; (b) obtain information concerning the ownership, nature and use of the equipment in pursuit of intelligence requirements; (c) locate and examine, remove, modify or substitute equipment hardware or software which is capable of yielding information of the type described in a) and b); (d) enable and facilitate surveillance activity by means of the equipment. “Information” may include communications content, and communications data as defined in section 21 of the 2000 Act.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/496069/53693_CoP_Equipment_Interference_Accessible.pdf
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 4 years, 147 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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