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Changing your biking habits cos of climate change

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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 07:39 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like ICE noise but I'm not that bothered about it. My main criteria are acceleration, handling and top speed (and of course cost). If e-bikes can do that, w/ range and instant charging, plus lots of places to do that, great. Not going to happen in my lifetime though.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote:
Let's check the National Grid tomorrow.

I forgot to check solar on this Winter's day, but right now it's windy, (my fence is damaged) and wind-power is close to max capacity, contributing 30% of demand. That's more than I expected. Impressed.
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Undinist
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elon Musk said today he'll make an electric ATV but not a road bike, because they're too dangerous. He says he nearly died when he was 17 when a truck hit him.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undinist wrote:
Elon Musk said today he'll make an electric ATV but not a road bike, because they're too dangerous. He says he nearly died when he was 17 when a truck hit him.


This is despite releasing cars on the world which will happily drive themselves into the side of a semi truck because they've mistaken it for a crisp packet.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 10 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ATV would be no less vulnerable.
You can already get electric versions and since they rarely do many miles (at least the off road kind) it's feasible until the double initial cost comes into it.
That same the modest mileage covered means fuel used/not used is relatively trivial anyway.
The same is true of many bikes that don't even do 5000 miles a year
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I wrote:
Let's check the National Grid tomorrow.

I forgot to check solar on this Winter's day, but right now it's windy, (my fence is damaged) and wind-power is close to max capacity, contributing 30% of demand. That's more than I expected. Impressed.

I'm slightly obsessed with that website but today (locally anyway) the air is fairly calm and the Winter sky is blue with high, wispy cloud. Wind power 24% of demand, but solar... oh dear, 0.65%.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with wind is that volatility, wind varies hugely hour to hour never mind day to day so that capacity has to be duplicated and maintained ready to start up in minutes.
It's a neat solution that eventually millions of plugged in EVs would act together like a giant battery to smooth out a few hours when wind failed, but if we had a week of calm foggy weather in December it would all fall apart disastrously without gas ready to fire up..
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Robby
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
It's a neat solution that eventually millions of plugged in EVs would act together like a giant battery to smooth out a few hours when wind failed, but if we had a week of calm foggy weather in December it would all fall apart disastrously without gas ready to fire up..


That's why we have a diverse grid, which is gradually becoming cleaner. The combination of gas, nuclear and renewables (with a little pumped hydro) works very well together. Nuclear for baseload, renewables as much as possible, pumped hydro to smooth it out and gas to quickly make up the rest.

More renewables is good, and there is space to add in more. At some point battery storage will be needed to reduce reliance on gas and smooth out spikes and dips. This will also be introduced gradually.

It isn't an instant change, and totally decarbonising the grid is going to be difficult. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing - every kilo of fossil fuel we don't burn equates to 3 kilos of CO2 that we aren't putting into the atmosphere.
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always thought we could do a lot more with hydro energy, after all it powered the early days of the Industrial Revolution.

There's a formula somewhere that can calculate the potential kWh generated by the flow of a river.

Not many folk live all that far from a source of clean & unobtrusive electrial power.

Yet we don't do it on anywhere near as grand a scale as the Victorians.

I wonder why that is?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackButler wrote:
I've always thought we could do a lot more with hydro energy, after all it powered the early days of the Industrial Revolution.

There's a formula somewhere that can calculate the potential kWh generated by the flow of a river.

Not many folk live all that far from a source of clean & unobtrusive electrial power.

Yet we don't do it on anywhere near as grand a scale as the Victorians.

I wonder why that is?


For the same reason we are sticking windmills up. Ecology.

Hydro power is ecologically bad according to the tree huggers. If we built the Severn barrage we would have power coming out of our ears from the high tide flow in that area. The ecological damage to the estuary would be large enough to totally wipe out certain species of plants and wildlife.

Look at the damage the huge damming projects have done in the past. Hoover dam, Aswan dam, some of the stories from China defy belief with the forced movement of people and flooding 1000's and 1000's of acres of land.

Hydro is not ecologically friendly but it is climatically friendly.

Mad isn't it. Laughing
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AldridgePrior
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackButler wrote:
I've always thought we could do a lot more with hydro energy, after all it powered the early days of the Industrial Revolution.

There's a formula somewhere that can calculate the potential kWh generated by the flow of a river.

Not many folk live all that far from a source of clean & unobtrusive electrial power.

Yet we don't do it on anywhere near as grand a scale as the Victorians.

I wonder why that is?


The sceptic in me says there's not enough profit for the greedy bastards to get overly involved in this form of energy production. In most cases the energy produced far outnumbers the energy they use to reverse pump the water back to where it originally was ( to use again).
But, big ugly wind turbines however have plenty of scope for many fingers in the pie.
A farmer local to me has recently sold out to ruin the scenery and go `green`.


Last edited by AldridgePrior on 21:03 - 11 Dec 2019; edited 1 time in total
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


For the same reason we are sticking windmills up. Ecology.

Hydro power is ecologically bad according to the tree huggers. If we built the Severn barrage we would have power coming out of our ears from the high tide flow in that area. The ecological damage to the estuary would be large enough to totally wipe out certain species of plants and wildlife.

Look at the damage the huge damming projects have done in the past. Hoover dam, Aswan dam, some of the stories from China defy belief with the forced movement of people and flooding 1000's and 1000's of acres of land.

Hydro is not ecologically friendly but it is climatically friendly.

Mad isn't it. Laughing


Yeah, I hear you.

All those water wheels the Victorians built totaly ruined our water courses & devastated the wildlife for all of us future generations to come.

So why don't we do it today?

There must be a reason?
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

AldridgePrior wrote:


The sceptic in me says there's not enough profit for the greedy bastards to get overly involved in this form of energy production. In most cases the energy produced far outnumbers the energy they use to reverse pump the water back to where it originally was ( to use again).
But, big ugly wind turbines however have plenty of scope for many fingers in the pie.
A farmer local to me has recently sold out to ruin the scenery and go `green`.


So, what you saying is it's all about £money?

Who da' funk it that it was all about £££money?
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those water wheels made very little power. Enough to run a newly-mechanised victorian mill, not enough for anything like modern demands.

To make serious power out of hydro you need a dam with a reservoir behind it. It's fairly inefficient in terms of land use, and you need to pick somewhere where you already have a valley with a large catchment and a big river. Unfortunately, this is exactly the sort of place where we have built towns for the last 1000 years.

Consider the Hoover dam in America. It's massive, and it powers Las Vegas. The problem is, Las Vegas isn't a particularly big city - population of around 2 million, so a bit less than Manchester. The lake feeding the Hoover dam is massive. It's narrow, but 110 miles long. We don't have that kind of room spare in the UK.

I'm also sceptical of the claims for tidal power, because if it was that good it would have been put to serious use somewhere in the world, and all I can find is pilot projects. Anything involving moving parts submerged in the sea ends up with maintenance requirements that knacker the economic argument. It's a shame, because if it worked tidal power would be great for baseload. The sea never stops moving.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 11 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all this feverish decarbonising, I wonder when the time will come when we realise we've tipped the balance too far the other way and fucked up the natural world order again.

Sadly, I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but I would dearly love to see the day we have to start producing CO2, because we arrogantly believe we have some sort of control over nature.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I missing something with higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere? It's obviously been there before and the planet didn't end so why is it bad now? Sure some ice will melt and yes it will get warmer but so what? People can move low lying cities and a result will be better bigger crops surely?

Mention of dams in the UK - it's basically a flat country compared to others and dams destroy animal habitats. Many smaller rivers had dams but more for drinking water but even those dams have been removed now.

Mention of leccy vehicles stabilising the grid? Yeah right - not a single person plugs a leccy vehicle wanting to save the grid from failing. They plug them in to get what charge they can get to be able to drive another 80 miles..
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Greta won the Time personality of the year. Rolling Eyes

Her handlers did a good job but she's run her course now. Approaching 17 she will lose the 'Ah!!' factor soon.

They should sell her and groom the next figurehead.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 12 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
With all this feverish decarbonising, I wonder when the time will come when we realise we've tipped the balance too far the other way and fucked up the natural world order again.

Sadly, I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but I would dearly love to see the day we have to start producing CO2, because we arrogantly believe we have some sort of control over nature.


Err... that can't happen unless we somehow work out a way to leach CO2 from the atmosphere, which we don't currently have.

Think about it.

To Sister Sledge, it's not the change that's the problem it's the rate of change. The rate of change is how we know that humans are influencing it, and not just a natural cycle. The 'natural cycle' nonsense is peddled by people who believe that God will save them from global warming and that don't understand the science and data behind the concern.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rate of change? I still don't get it!
Does it mean we won't be able to adapt quickly enough? Perhaps I lost some brain cells in a mini stroke but I do need educating as to why it's so bad Sad
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Rate of change? I still don't get it!
Does it mean we won't be able to adapt quickly enough? Perhaps I lost some brain cells in a mini stroke but I do need educating as to why it's so bad Sad


Did you never do rate of change on graphs at school? Did you not do area under a curve? I'm guessing in that case you probably didn't do calculus...?

You don't really need to understand it. You just need to imagine a graph with a steeper line on it now than in previous natural temperature fluctuations. This kind of change has a momentum, and that momentum is the danger to us.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
...momentum is the danger to us.


How ironic that's turned out to be Laughing

Really though the main problem is that no one tells the truth with Climate Change it's all a smoke screen for other agendas. Honesty should be something like shutting down air travel, ditching old lorries and buses, then cars... with motorbikes waaaaaaay down on the list.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
MarJay wrote:
...momentum is the danger to us.


How ironic that's turned out to be Laughing

Really though the main problem is that no one tells the truth with Climate Change it's all a smoke screen for other agendas. Honesty should be something like shutting down air travel, ditching old lorries and buses, then cars... with motorbikes waaaaaaay down on the list.


Factories, ships, industry in general. Cleaner aviation should be at the top of the list. We should be investing in Nuclear over all other forms of power really, but people won't have it because of Chernobyl and Fukushima. It's all a lot safer these days and there are 'next generation' reactors coming online that won't have the problems those earlier reactors had.

https://www.wired.com/story/next-gen-nuclear/
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
We should be investing in Nuclear over all other forms of power really, but people won't have it because of Chernobyl and Fukushima. It's all a lot safer these days and there are 'next generation' reactors coming online that won't have the problems those earlier reactors had.


I think me & you live on totally different planets, & I'm happy for your nuclear reactor to be built on your planet & not mine. Don't worry, it's all perfectly safe.

If it ever did, in the very unlikely event, of it all going 'tits up', actually go "tits up", then rest assured that there will always be another planet for you & your dearest to come & live on.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short of going back to the horse and cart and sailing ships I see no way of curtailing flights or shipping.

We had video conferencing when I was in Shell. It doesn't work. Yes you can see the person and yes, you can discuss things but nothing beats sitting in front of someone when doing deals or bargaining something. Business is not going to give up flying.

Same with shipping. Unless you stop globalism you can't stop shipping. Business is not going to give up shipping.

So basically you need to give up business. Not going to happen.

I've run out of options now.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 13 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hasten the end is the best way. Everyone go grab a 2-stroke Very Happy
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