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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 13:13 - 26 Nov 2019 Post subject: Metal detectors jailed for |
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-50516329
Quote: | Two metal detectorists have been jailed for stealing a £3m Viking hoard.
George Powell and Layton Davies uncovered about 300 coins in a field in Eye, near Leominster, Herefordshire, in 2015, but did not declare the treasure, instead selling it to dealers.
They were convicted of theft and concealing their find, with Powell, 38, jailed for 10 years and Layton, 51, for eight-and-a-half.
Sentencing, Judge Nicholas Cartwright said they had "cheated" the public. |
Yeah. Good lock em up, cos as a member of the public I feel cheated.
10 years, really? Wtf? Yet knife wielding dindus get off almost scot free. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 14:38 - 26 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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If I did a £3,000,000 tax fraud or stole £3m off a government department, I'd go to jail for a long time.
It's effectively what they did.
As metal dectectorists, they KNOW the rules on treasure so I have very little sympathy.
They would have been paid out for the find anyway (not full value) and would now have been enjoying a comfortable retirement instead of sitting in Jail. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:10 - 26 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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I agree with stinkwheel. They knew the rules.
Mind you it is ironic when you consider something like the Elgin Marbles. I wonder if the artifacts will be named after the thieves. |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Aug 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 09:23 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Although finds are reported up this way, I'm also aware of detectorists who have found things and not reported them. Not big finds - bronze axe heads for example - but it does make me wonder what else has been found.
But!
Two massive projects up this way boil my urine. One is a massive opencast coal mine. Sure they sent archaeologists in to check the land and dig but not fully. They know of an ancient Stone Age village that once stood there and knew they made and traded beads. The archaeologists discovered a massive and important bead making site of national significance but their reportings were ignored. A few notes written up and the rest simply churned in the hunt for coal - sheer vandalism.
Another project on the A19 near the Tyne Tunnel at Testos Roundabout. It was known for being literally lifting with medieval silver coins. Very little was done to remove all of the artifacts and work began almost immediately.
Testos silver coin:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49130933263_e8f41fc6e6_b.jpgSilver Coin by Craig David, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49131612797_8889435516_b.jpgSilver coin 2 by Craig David, on Flickr
The coin? I was shown how 'bountiful' the land was by someone.. ____________________ CCM 404 DS |
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Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche... Nearly there...
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The Artist |
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The Artist Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:47 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Monkeywrencher wrote: |
If You let me have a poke around your property and I stole a million pound worth of stuff from you, how long would you want my sentence to be? |
That's the sticking point. So anything on public land belongs to the state does it? These remained hidden for thousands of years, it's not like the state even knew about them, or thought they "owned" them.
What if I found them in my garden? Oh, yeah, still state property. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche... Nearly there...
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Posted: 11:58 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: |
That's the sticking point. So anything on public land belongs to the state does it? These remained hidden for thousands of years, it's not like the state even knew about them, or thought they "owned" them.
What if I found them in my garden? Oh, yeah, still state property. |
But it wan't found on public land, there was a landowner who was robbed of his half of the compensation for or value of the find. the actual punishment for not reporting a treasure find correctly is only 3 months in prison or an unlimited fine. so the rest of the time must be for the theft of £1 million+ from the land owner.
When he said they had robbed the public he didn't mean finacially he meant culturally.
Quote: | "cheated the farmer, his mother, the landowner and also the public".
"That is because the treasure belongs to the nation," he said.
"The benefit to the nation is these items can be seen and admired by others." |
The state would have paid them for the treasure, just maybe not the maximum amount. they wouldn't then sell them at a profit though. their sole reason for not reporting it was to steal it from the landowner. ____________________ 2001 Aprilia RSV Mille R -dead, 2016 XSR 700-gone, 2018 Dorsoduro 900 |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 12:20 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Monkeywrencher wrote: |
But it wan't found on public land, there was a landowner who was robbed of his half of the compensation for or value of the find. |
But they were apparently jailed for a longer term than most rapists get, for "cheating the public".
Quote: | Sentencing the three defendants at Worcester Crown Court on Friday, the judge told them they had "cheated the farmer, his mother, the landowner and also the public".
"That is because the treasure belongs to the nation," he said. |
I presume they mean the "government", or do we all get a share of the value?
Monkeywrencher wrote: | When he said they had robbed the public he didn't mean finacially he meant culturally. |
Which is an odd premise, considering nobody knew about them nor gave a toss about them for thousands of years.
It just seems odd that something owned by someone hundreds or thousands of years ago, is hidden and lost then discovered years alter, at which point, no matter who finds it, no matter where, the government now owns it.
What if it was descendants to the land owner? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:59 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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C-Vit Sparrow wrote: | Even on private property the state has rights. Mineral rights for instance. |
Oh really?
Quote: |
With the exception of oil, gas, coal, gold and silver, the state does not own mineral rights in the UK. Generally minerals are held in private ownership, and information on mineral rights, where available, is held by the Land Registry together with details of land surface ownership. |
C-Vit Sparrow wrote: | If those guys had broken into a museum and a few million squids worth of stuff ut would amount to the same thing and nobody would be defending them. |
Would it feck. Finding something buried for thousands of years in a field is hardly the same as breaking entry into a museum to steal artefacts.
That's like saying filling your water bottle from a lake in a private field is like breaking into a supermarket and stealing a bottle of mineral water. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche... Nearly there...
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Ste Not Work Safe
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:03 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Prison for ye then laddie. Even had the nerve to custard it...
What about stealing £1M, sounds pretty serious to me.
Yet the bloke proven to be cheating on who wants to be a millionaire was simply given a suspended sentence and asked to give his winnings back. Plus legal fees so one less ivory back scratcher for him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ingram |
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Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche... Nearly there...
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:59 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Monkeywrencher wrote: |
you're making arguments from a position based on the incorrect supposition that the treasure would have been seized by the government, this is not the case.
https://www.gov.uk/treasure
Read that it's not long and you'll realise the only person stolen from financially was the land owner, the judge even laid out in plain english, as previously quoted, what he meant by them having stolen from the nation, not state nor government. |
I suppose so. It just sits a bit odd when nobody would have knew they were there had it not been for the detector users finding them in the first place.
It's stealing something which nobody knew about the existence of, nor would notice them missing, yet is punishable to a level normally reserved for rape and manslaughter charges. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 151 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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