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Advice - Accident with unlit traffic island

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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 27 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go on OP, let's have a link to the Google Maps Streetview so we can properly see what's being talked about.
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1198
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 27 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

And also an update on the conversation with legal types please!
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 27 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also why was the OP that far out from the kerb?

You can clearly see a footpath on the left side of the picture.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 27 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Well having that island there with no bollards looks bloody dangerous to me
I did a quick bit of photo butchery to get an idea of what you might see ( or not)
at night.

https://imgur.com/YS5dm97.jpg

Never mind the sneering about poor obs,shouldn't be crossing the lines etc, leaving an unlit obstacle in the middle
of the road is wilful neglect IMO.
How many people will expect to find a 4" step on a dark and stormy night?
I can well understand how many folk could clip that.

Dunno how you stand legally, that's something for the legal types.


The edit is good for a moonlit road but once the wankers turn their lights on it looks like this.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have dealt with a few identical to this.

In order to be able to make a claim, the first thing you have to find out if possible is when the bollards were damaged and thn whe it was reported to the council.

Under the Highways Act, the council (or Highways Authority) have a duty of care to ensure that the road is inspected on a regular period and maintained to a satisfactory standard.

If the council were advised some days previously that the bollards were damaged/defective, then you may have a claim as the council failed to carry out its duty of care to repair in a "Reasonable" time and reasonable time is subjective.

A few hours post notification would not hold water, several days might, it would depend on what the inspection records show, but the courts have deemed it unreasonable to spend 24 hours of every day patrolling looking for damage, hence it would depend on the delay between been being notified and them repairing if that is the case.

That said, if you make a claim, be prepared to take a hit on contributoy negligence as the defence will want to know what you were doing so far out in the first place.

There is one thing being in the dominant position, but in the centre of hatchings? I have seen these cases go 50/50 split liability on more than one occasion.

Also bear in mind that if you were not injured, or your injuries are minor, you will not be able to get legal representation unless you pay for it yourself.

In damage only cases, the value of the claim has to be over £5,000 in order to clai back legal costs.

At the moment, injury cases ave to be worth at least £1,000 (this is also changing to £5,000 in the new year) in order to be able to get legal representation.

Your insurers might foot the bill if you have legal expenses insurance, but they tend to apply the same rules as the rest of the legal community, and of course if you take a hit on contrib, then that reduces the value of the claim anyway.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why were you riding along hatching in the dark unless you could see clearly that the road was clear?

I will accept on full beam with nothing coming the other way and I knew the road (apart from the fact you clearly didn't ) as potential answers .

Everything else was being foolhardy.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything will be clear if / when the OP posts a link to the offending traffic island on Google Maps.

As five other vehicles managed to crash into the same traffic island whilst they were waiting for recovery then it might be that no blame lies with the OP and it really was just the fault of the local council / Highways Authority.
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Ste wrote:
Everything will be clear if / when the OP posts a link to the offending traffic island on Google Maps.

As five other vehicles managed to crash into the same traffic island whilst they were waiting for recovery then it might be that no blame lies with the OP and it really was just the fault of the local council / Highways Authority.


Sod Google Maps, claiming 5 an hour, there must be a pile of crashed vehicles and debris visible from space by now. Google Earth should do. Laughing


As with everything else you have posted, you are assuming recovery took an hour Smile
Was waiting for over 2 hours to be recovered. 5th vehicle that collided on the island was while my bike was about to be loaded on the recovery van, so the driver saw this accident and is assisting on my behalf as well.
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will post google maps link and plenty of pictures/videos once this is underway!

I will not be sharing this for the time being, as it is not yet proccessed.

I will keep you all updated, whatever the outcome.

Thanks for all the helpful peeps on here.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post a link to the traffic island on Google Maps?
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantiV wrote:
Here is an image of the traffic island.
Google maps date is April this year, but now both bollards are completely missing.
There hatched lines across the middle are now so faint you cannot see them anymore on a wet road, looks like a second lane.
This used to be a 3 lane road before, reduced to 2 lanes.
Those look like Haldo base light bollards. The shell is a separate piece sitting on top of a flat lamp set in the island which shines upwards, which makes the bollard glow.

The shells are only held on with plastic shear pins so if hit they can usually be refitted.

If the shells were missing, were the base lights also out of lighting?

Are they actually internally lit or has someone just used them without power as once you are more than 'x'ish metres from a lamp column there is no legal requirement to have them lit. Without GSV I can't spin round to see where or if there are any lamp columns close enough to mean that lighting is required.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantiV wrote:


As with everything else you have posted, you are assuming recovery took an hour Smile
Was waiting for over 2 hours to be recovered. 5th vehicle that collided on the island was while my bike was about to be loaded on the recovery van, so the driver saw this accident and is assisting on my behalf as well.


So the possible cause of the other accidents was that they needed to move to the middle of the road to pass the obstruction at the side of the road and were not paying full attention to the road, rather looking at the mess at the side of the road.

I find it very odd that after you fell off and then someone else hit the same island. That NO ONE decided to highlight the issue to oncoming drivers/riders.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
I find it very odd that after you fell off and then someone else hit the same island. That NO ONE decided to highlight the issue to oncoming drivers/riders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
SantiV wrote:


As with everything else you have posted, you are assuming recovery took an hour Smile
Was waiting for over 2 hours to be recovered. 5th vehicle that collided on the island was while my bike was about to be loaded on the recovery van, so the driver saw this accident and is assisting on my behalf as well.


So the possible cause of the other accidents was that they needed to move to the middle of the road to pass the obstruction at the side of the road and were not paying full attention to the road, rather looking at the mess at the side of the road.

I find it very odd that after you fell off and then someone else hit the same island. That NO ONE decided to highlight the issue to oncoming drivers/riders.


I informed the police, who were not interested in coming to the scene even after mentioning that another car had already hit the same island.
All they could do was inform the council.

Was I supposed to stand in the middle of the island on a 40 limit road at night time, putting my life in further danger?
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 08:36 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
SantiV wrote:

As with everything else you have posted, you are assuming recovery took an hour Smile
Was waiting for over 2 hours to be recovered. 5th vehicle that collided on the island was while my bike was about to be loaded on the recovery van, so the driver saw this accident and is assisting on my behalf as well.


So 1 accident due to this island every 30 minutes? I’m amazed the Highways Agency are doing nothing about it as a matter of urgency.


They put 2 cones on it the night after.
https://ibb.co/8B63d4z
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

SantiV wrote:


Looking at that photo I cannot (hardly) see the island, only the cones and the hatching is pretty invisible as well.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still puzzled as to why the island is there? As Ste says - a link on StreetView would be helpful.
I'm almost certain that there would/will be actual roadside signs warning of such an island being there? I can see a sign in your initial photo but without a StreetView link cannot read it.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
SantiV wrote:
Was waiting for over 2 hours to be recovered. 5th vehicle that collided on the island was while my bike was about to be loaded on the recovery van
So 1 accident due to this island every 30 minutes? I’m amazed the Highways Agency are doing nothing about it as a matter of urgency.
I mentioned my own simliar experience upthread. In my case, it was caused by low winter sun and being dazzled to the extent that I (and the following vehicles) simply didn't see the obstruction. In other words, the problem was caused by specific environmental conditions at the time.
Sister Sledge wrote:
I'm still puzzled as to why the island is there?
Most likely installed in the hatched area specifically to demark it, to prevent people simply ignoring the hatching and using it for overtaking. If the OP ever provides the Streetview link I expect we'll see them at intervals along the stretch of road.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
I mentioned my own simliar experience upthread. In my case, it was caused by low winter sun and being dazzled to the extent that I (and the following vehicles) simply didn't see the obstruction. In other words, the problem was caused by specific environmental conditions at the time.


You're not supposed to enter a hatched area unless completely necessary and you can see it's safe to do so. Why were these motorists even travelling down it, if it wasn't visible?


It'srecommended not to, but there's nothing in law that says you can't and it doesn't automatically put you in th wrong if there's broken white lines demarking them.

That's the difference between 'should' and 'shall' or 'must' in a legal context.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 29 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


That's the difference between 'should' and 'shall' or 'must' in a legal context.


You are right, but in civil law, the question will be asked, "Why were you within the hatched section?"

Go back to my comment on Contributory negligence. Big hit on contrib, and if the matter was not reported to the local authority before the crshes occured then any claim goes out of the window unless it was proven that they had knowledge of the defect and failed to correct the issue within a reasonable period of time, and the term reasonable is very subjective according to the case law that has gone before.

To use a well known court term, "Any claim is doomed to fail before it has even begun" Unless the test above can be satisfied.
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