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Optimum Population

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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 19 Nov 2019    Post subject: Optimum Population Reply with quote

What's the optimum population of this country?

My Uncle thinks the more we immigrants we get in, the better, because the NHS needs the work force.
My argument is that for every NHS worker coming over, there are probably 100 who will need the NHS, hence it's a detriment.

I imagine it is a bit of both, in that if there are too few people in a country, you don't have the required workforce, farmers, labourers, etc. But if there are too many then services cannot cope. Therefore there must be some optimum. My guess would be about 50 million for the size of UK.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 19 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a sweepstake:

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 19 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The country and environment needs fewer people, the economy needs more.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 19 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start with a 10million population reduction, which may or may not put us back closer to the maximum sustainable population in this country.

I've always said it would be cheaper for the government to pay for a one way flight and all the migration paperwork and assistance for people to apply for visas and even citizenship of any country of their choice within reason.

The problem has to start with physical numbers of people, not arguments about having enough cheap foreign labour to carry out jobs that British employers should be paying wages for British people to do.

If the day ever comes here where we can have strict controlled immigration for skilled workers in industries and sectors where we have high need and demand, then great. But we should sort out immigration with a cap otherwise and refuse entry to people who don't meet our requirements for jobs or earning potential. More importantly we need to be as ruthless at not accepting refugees into the country as some other nations are, and be able to get away with saying no like they do.

The NHS will never succeed or be a sustainable service with more money and funding. It instead needs less patients, less demand and less aging of the population bed blocking and receiving repeated treatment over and over again, and less demand from the elderly for nursing care and rest of life care.

I think within 10years all full time working people will be paying for or contributing to either private care, or having to pay towards their own NHS treatment costs. There is no other way to make it work unless you can significantly reduce the population or the average population age of the country.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I intend to get the full measure of elderly help for the taxation and NI I've forked out over 40 years. Wink
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:36 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Genetic engineering to raise the mean intelligence. Until we achieve that we'll remain a bunch of lobotomized chimps having a banana frenzy in a shit-filled cage.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

He would be correct if Britain had a points based immigration system where immigrants were given a visa to work in the NHS. However most immigrants do not work in the NHS, this is just a talking point by the left to try to make people more pro-immigration. Your uncle wouldn't know much about the negative of immigration anyway as its younger people who suffer when the labour market gets flooded, not middle aged and older people.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 20 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

100 million

But we all have to become vegan!
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I intend to get the full measure of elderly help for the taxation and NI I've forked out over 40 years. Wink


Good luck playing the "ive paid my taxes all me life" card with your local social service dept. Your better writing a begging letter to your pal Boreish Johnson.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a thought: Could you imagine how awesome this planet would be if humans hadn't taken over and messed everything up?
The answer to your question is zero - as others have said.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Just had a thought: Could you imagine how awesome this planet would be if humans hadn't taken over and messed everything up?
The answer to your question is zero - as others have said.


Unless........ Humans learn to live in harmony with nature?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Sister Sledge wrote:
Just had a thought: Could you imagine how awesome this planet would be if humans hadn't taken over and messed everything up?
The answer to your question is zero - as others have said.


Unless........ Humans learn to live in harmony with nature?


They can't live in harmony with each other let alone other species.

If there are aliens watching us, they should exterminate the human race before it befouls anything other than it's own planet. Seriously, we are not fit to let loose on an unsuspecting galaxy.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I intend to get the full measure of elderly help for the taxation and NI I've forked out over 40 years. Wink


Good luck playing the "ive paid my taxes all me life" card with your local social service dept. Your better writing a begging letter to your pal Boreish Johnson.


Exactly. Taxes for social benefits are more like a theft than an investment. Your chances of ever getting anything much in return are minimal, and certainly not in proportion to what you paid in.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 21 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


Exactly. Taxes for social benefits are more like a theft than an investment. Your chances of ever getting anything much in return are minimal, and certainly not in proportion to what you paid in.


So go and live somewhere with no petsonal taxes.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 22 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I intend to get the full measure of elderly help for the taxation and NI I've forked out over 40 years. Wink


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bTmxnVVMPzM/hqdefault.jpg

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


Exactly. Taxes for social benefits are more like a theft than an investment. Your chances of ever getting anything much in return are minimal, and certainly not in proportion to what you paid in.


So go and live somewhere with no petsonal taxes.


That's exactly what people do.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 22 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
we'll remain a bunch of lobotomized chimps having a banana frenzy in a shit-filled cage.


This man knows how to have fun. I'm in! Very Happy
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 22 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Seriously, we are not fit to let loose on an unsuspecting galaxy.


Equally seriously, can I have Cadbury's instead? Fruit & nut maybe? Oh, g'wan! Smile
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 23 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Seriously, we are not fit to let loose on an unsuspecting galaxy.


Equally seriously, can I have Cadbury's instead? Fruit & nut maybe? Oh, g'wan! Smile


WTF happened to the Galaxy with the crispy bits in it? Had it once, can't remember where from, not seen since even in the big supers.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 23 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Genetic engineering to raise the mean intelligence.

Hetzer wrote:
WTF happened to the Galaxy with the crispy bits in it?

Thinking

With genetic engineering we can have anything in Galaxy bars. Dance!
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 23 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
The country and environment needs fewer people, the economy needs more.


This.

Also left-leaning types often lump refugees and economic migrants together in discussions. This serves to try and stifle debate about high levels of net inward migration by making those against seem in some way inhuman. In terms of refugees, the numbers entering the UK are always small due to the distance from any current conflicts - though there are the slightly absurd rules that state refugees can travel through any number of safe countries before applying for refugee status (eg. some of the Dunkirk/Calais refu-econo-migrantees)

In terms of the Uk environment/ecology, this would benefit from immediate cessation of population increase (by migration and/or high birth rate) - average net inward migration of a city/yr (current levels) means we have to provide an additional city's worth of resources each year! More water use, waste(landfill, sewage etc), accommodation, energy, schools, health resources each and every year...

As for the argument the NHS needs workers, well yes, an increase in adult population will require more health services. If this is provided by further increases in population, then that will then subsequently lead to the requirement of yet more NHS workers (ponzi-like scheme).

If population size is roughly controlled, then this removes problems caused by sudden increases (resource, environment) and even reduces the risk of severe political instability - Brexit in part was probably caused by lax migration rules

More people are indeed good for the economy.. without migration, workers need to be incubated for at least 18yrs (substantial resources required to bring up a child). Simply 'importing' a ready made adult worker removes these costs from the receiving country in addition to receiving the worker.
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