"E10 ate my hamster" - Ethanol in the real world

[Easy-X]

So following on from the interesting discussion on supermarket fuels I'm curious as to how much damage people have actually experienced with their bikes - and in particular older ones - and what you do about it.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

Fuel line rotted off my 350 bullet. It was old but unused and dry-strored fuel line I'd had for ages and had fitted about a week previously. It went all limp and splitty. Hadn't switched the tap off. Bike was sitting in a pool of fuel. Happily it did not burn down my house but it could have.

Needle vales corroded on KLE500 and stuck open, flooded fuel up through the emulsion tube and back into the airbox. The bike did ACTUALLY catch fire while I was riding it but self-extinguished. Evidenced by an escher-esque melty airbox.

Both of these were with E5, not E10.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MarJay]

E10 is not currently legal in the UK I think.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[MCN]

1957 BSA C12 250 Single.

Plastic hadn't been invented yet so no problemos running ethanol adulterated fuel.

Other machines are all ethanol resistant.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Easy-X]

[stinkwheel]

[-]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Bhud]

I have had fuelling problems, but I can't, in all honesty, identify ethanol as the culprit and separate this from the effect of a lack of maintenance (e.g. confidently riding around on a bike with a 10 year old fuel line is a no-no) on some of my past bikes which were perhaps an inevitable part of my personal learning curve.

Fuel taps replaced with generic, manual ones (which I now know to test first, because sometimes they leak even when new). I do this always, now. I'm not a believer in old vacuum-operated automatic fuel taps. They were fine 20/30 years ago perhaps, but they're a liability now, so I don't even bother wasting time with them. I just stick on a new manual one. I've had auto fuel taps burble fuel back through the suction (vacuum) hose, and my inkling is, it's ethanol. I've also experienced that fuel tap repair kits don't necessarily work.

Fuel line replaced regularly (annual). I currently have about 30cm left of a length I bought from a busy car spares shop a couple of years ago.

Hardened, old fuel line has caused me 2 issues in the past:
1) Black rubber bits in carb bowls.
2) Broke my petcock when trying to remove it (the line took the press-fit brass nipple with it).

Those aren't the only issues I've had with fuel lines, but I'm too embarrassed to share my other anecdote...

I know to regularly monitor and maintain carburettors. In the past, I've found lots of powdery black rubber appearing in my carb bowls (that was a 2003 bike). The fuel lines on that weren't up to the job but they were old. No issues on my 36 year old Kawasaki, but that doesn't mean much because it was a nonrunner project bike I reconditioned only a few months ago. I remember buying and fitting new float needles because the old ones would stick, and new bowl gaskets, and lots of new black o-rings (the originals had completely disintegrated between the carbs, and so had the ones under the float needles). It also has a lot of new things in general, unrelated to fuelling, on the bike. Since I got it back on the road after however many years it's been off, there have been no fuelling-related issues at all. Issue with shocks - replaced with new. Issues with exhaust - repaired, then replaced etc. Things like that. I fill up at the same petrol station every time. The premium/super option is now marked "E5". I take it for a ride (and a thrash) at least once a week. 7 months means nothing really, but my problems with past old bikes are inconclusive and hard to pin down to ethanol alone.

[JackButler]

I've done 5x sets of Mikuni BST36SS from Bandit 1200 Mk1's all of which had fuelling problems this year. These are all 96-99 bikes, well maintained but not ridden daily with 20k-40k mileages.

The problems seem to arise after a period of time unused.

I'm getting quite expert at this now & beginning to see the signs inside the carbs where it's telling you what's the problem. None of them have shown major signs of wear, the float valves have all been OK, the needles & emulsion tubes have all been within wear limits, the diaphragms working well and the plastic slides & guides have all been in good condition.

The 1 major thing in common has been the 'O' rings in the float bowls, these literrally crumble when handled. The brass under the fuel line has been corroded/badly tarnished and I always thought it took a lot of abuse to corrode brass.

I've not seen much debris in the bowls & so far no snotty like substance that I've seen so many pictures of. The float bowl gaskets have all been OK.

It seems to me that it's the 'wet' 'O' rings that suffer most & that tells me it's the fuel. I'm not convinced that it's just down to the ethanol. I'm convinced that they're putting something else in alongside the ethanol that eats NBR & brass & I'm convinced they've only been doing this for the past few months.

Spring 2020 is going to be VERY interesting when you all bring your bikes out of hibernation.
____________________
I clean my guns with the tears of the snivelling, left wing scum.

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Sister Sledge]

Nothing yet but I do replace fuel lines and clamping clips each year through fear of one degrading - it has twin fuel taps and one fuel line tucks in behind the engine and then to a 'T' connector. I really don't trust it.
No issues with running except when it comes out of hibernation it does run a little cr*ppy for a few miles - that will be slight build up of crud in a jet. It soon sorts itself once half a gallon of fuel has gone through.
Must admit to beginning to worry about the float inside the carb..

It'll be interesting to see what the alternatives of fuel will be. When vehicles switched to unleaded you could buy additives and whatnot. I wonder if such help for older engines will be out there?
____________________
CCM 404 DS

[P.]

[redeem ouzzer]

[Easy-X]

I mentioned this to my local bike mechanic this morning (why I was there is a story for another thread) the whole Ethanol thing...

Yes - fuel lines, yes - carb parts... but also tank linings; even ones that are meant to be "Ethanol resistant" and he showed me a photo of the inside of a tank he'd done recently. The lining was coming off in chunks and then clogging the carb.

Of course I said "who runs an old bike with no in-line fuel filter?!" and one of the mechanics gingerly held his hand up

Seriously considering dropping the oil mixer pump now though!
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[redeem ouzzer]

[-]

[stinkwheel]

[stinkwheel]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Easy-X]

You can get blanking kits for a fiver to drop the oil pump on my "DT" AFAIK the tacho has its own nylon gear but I shall look again while I have the crankcase covers off

With regards to what it is all the service manuals, marketing brochures, etc. refer to it as a 1976 DT175C and the serial number starts "1G1" which, AFAIK, says it's the European version of... whatever you want to call it rather than a US import.

Anyway, we're getting distracted. There's pros and cons to premix vs autolube but in the context of this thread the question is: does premixing help with regards to the Ethanol "problem" ?

<edit> spelling
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[-]

[droog]

Hello, hope everyone is doing ok.

Sorry for being behind the curve regarding E10 fuel introduction (I've had my hands full with stuff that has taken me away from motorcycles the past few months) but I've just been reading this thread with interest.

I've just started hearing the government adverts on the radio regarding the official introduction of E10 fuel in September.

I tried checking my current bikes compatibility with E10 via the UK government vehicle checker but it was blank and didn't appear to work so I used the Dutch one instead (link below).

My 2001 CBR Honda equipped with PGM Fi fuel injection appears to be compatible with E10, but not so my carbed 1998 Hornet (which has had a ground up rebuild and will hopefully be running by September)

Naturally I'm worried about the metal corrosion, rubber destruction issues mentioned above so I'm going to follow Stinkwheels advice and start adding the Frost's Ethomix Ethanol Corrosion Inhibitor Additive to the Hornet's fuel (and the CBR to mitigate some of the corrosion/rubber issues etc mentioned above).

Dutch E10 checker:

https://www.e10check.nl/

[weasley]

Run it on ‘super’ unleaded then, which will stay at or under 5%.

My KTM is apparently compatible but the internet is full of stories of swollen tanks that won’t go back on after removal.
____________________
Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[jaffa90]

Super unleaded now contains 5% ethanol as stated by weasley.

i`ve tested all my spare rubber fuel pipes some " DIN 73379 type B, NBR" also writing on the pipe "suitable for unleaded fuel" and found all of them going soft and slimy. Also as mentioned what will 10% damage?