Honda screw head

[XT65]

Hi
I’ve known about the ‘dimple’ on a JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) screw face,but I’ve found some that have a tiny cross embossed on the face.
Are they JIS or does the cross mean something else?
I can’t seem to find reference or pictures and the manual says they’re (screw,pan,5x16 /Honda prt 93500-05016-0G)
These are available at Wemoto but for some reason,they don’t know what they’re called....and unable to find out from their supplier...
The thing is I need to use an impact driver and don’t want to cam out .
It looks as though someone has tried with probably a PH in the past so don’t need to damage them further.
They’re quite difficult to access (with WD40) located as they are at the throttle housing (I’m fitting a new cable on an XR125) and therefore probably be difficult to cut (I’ve got no heat source just a heat gun and obviously don’t want to melt anything...
So given this description of them , what Vessel bits would I need to order (if they’re JIS....a PH 001 seems to fit snug ,but we all know that’s very deceptive..)

Cheers all!

[jaffa90]

"""These are available at Wemoto but for some reason,they don’t know what they’re called....and unable to find out from their supplier."""

The + symbol looks like a phillips head.
Pan head screw 5mm dia x 16mm long.

I would guess that the head parts are stuck rather than the threads.
Can you tap the heads sideways with a toffee hammer and small drift?

[stinkwheel]

You can use a JIS on a phillips but not the other way round.

In fact, they are better for phillips heads, less tendancy to cam-out because of the more acute angle on the sides of the driving faces, they sit more flat against the grooves in the screw head and are less likely to pop-up as they are turned.

The point on a phillips is too long for it to seat fully into the head of a JIS.

Try tapping the screwdriver into the screw, the percussion can loosen any corrosion between the head and the piece and try turning both ways in the presence of penetrating oil.

A little heat never hurts if the piece will tolerate it. A couple of heat and cooling cycles, applying penetrating oil when it's hot can also help. You can pour hot water onto a more delicate piece or use a hairdrier if you're worried about damaging it with a heat gun/blowlamp.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Shaft]

[XT65]

Thanks for the good info and pic (that’s the one)
Ever helpful BCF lads n lasses,
Thanks a lot all

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Dremel-style tool (even cordless) with a cutting wheel has solved such problems for me several times. Carburettor float bowl screws and yes, throttle cable housing screws spring to mind. It should be your last resort because you're damaging what little remains but in fact it has never failed me. Cut a slot centrally and then use a flat head screwdriver.

[Easy-X]

JIS FTW! I've had plenty of screws I just know would have been destroyed if they were philips but the JIS screwdrivers can just handle an amazing amount of torque.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[sickpup]

I could never understand why people needed JIS scerwdrivers when the Phillips drivers I use worked perfectly well, I've never had a problem and never needed a set.

Thing about JIS screws is they are compatable with a good quality Phillips head screwdriver made to DIN 5260 which JIS was absorbed into back in 2008.
So if you have a pre 2008 bike yes you may need JIS screwdrivers but after 2008 a GOOD QUALITY Phillips is made to DIN 5260 which is the same standard that a modern JIS is made to.
It may be that you post 2008 bike has pre 2008 JIS headed screws but a good quality Phillips will still be fine.

Now this is the difficult bit, no one makes a JIS screwdriver anymore, they make screwdrivers to DIN 5260 but this isn't the same as a JIS screwdriver pre 2008. In fact the chances are that manufacturers have been supplying tools to the new standard for at least 2 years before the standard came into force so you have next to no chance of buying a real JIS screwdriver.

The simple answer is buy expensive European screwdrivers such as Facom, Wera etc or Japanese such as Hozan or Vessel and you won't have a problem, buy cheap and you will.

[stinkwheel]

[sickpup]

[stinkwheel]

To be fair, it's starting to sound like a total clusterfuck in the name of standardisation (I'm thinking BA threads).

"DIN 5260-2 : SCREW DRIVERS FOR SCREWS WITH CROSS RECESS; GO-RING GAUGES FOR THE TESTING OF SCREWDRIVER POINTS"

Not sure where the screw standard is but the presence of dimples on some not others implies there are two sorts. That said, I've seen posidrives with dimples too, mostly on door hinges, not sure what that's about.

Again, people used to grind down the tips of phillips screwdrivers to fit JIS heads when you simply couldn't get drivers for them and the tip doesn't really do anything useful other than poke holes in your pockets/toolbag so I can see why they would have changed it.

I was always under the impression that phillips screw heads are designed to cam-out the bit for machine assembly and JIS are designed NOT to cam out the bit for accurate tightening.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Polarbear]

[XT65]

Tat's what I understood as well. It's also one of the reasons Pozi drive was created because they don't cam out.

Confirmed here and also states a supplier of old JIS standard screwdrivers.

https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/[/quote]

Yes,torque specific...That’s how I understand it as well... I do have a set of JIS screwdrivers,not sure how accurate they are thought..And to top it off after some heat and careful use of the impact driver and a couple of hours I finally broke the grip.
The bite that did it?......A PH 001 !?!..

Thanks for the conversation, it’s an interesting topic (the missus thinks we’re all mad.
A screw is either one of TWO THINGS!...hhh bless ‘er!)

[Hong Kong Phooey]