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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 07:20 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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I'd not be so worried about being stopped and delayed by plod, for their suspicion that a KTM made too much power... their reputation for not breaking down, and having the bits on the shelf to fix them when they do, is n-o-t wonderful....
The KTM SX from memory, is also not just not A1 Learner-Legal, its also not even A2 restrict-able, because of the weight, being so low to meet the A2 power to weight limits you would have to restrict by more than 1/2 original manufacturers declared power... and there is your nigger in the wooodpile.
What the magazines say, what Wikipedea says , what you say means not a lot; a court of law would take the manufacturers claimed power of the machine, and the manufacturers claimed weight of the machine, THEN ask how you could have possibly 'restricted' that to the legislated A1-Learner-Legal or A2 restricted power and power to weight limits. And exceeding the A2 power to weight limit to even be restrictable.... you figure your chances of being able to blag that...
Odds you will get pulled in the first place are another thing, and very much depend on how much of a dick you are to get their attention, and where you live. Do plod in your local have a 'problem' with noisome oiks on dirt bikes?
If you do get pulled though.... it IS in the lap-off, because not so many traffic coppas are all that genned up on the minutea of the law they are supposed to uphold; they are police-men not lawyers.... BUT they wouldn't have to be too clue-less to look at the manufacturers brochure specs, realise that the SX isn't even restrictable to A2 licence limits.... and start asking PRETTY awkward questions, you probably wouldn't be able to answer, like 'So HOW did you restrict this then?'...
So bottom line is that this ISN'T a Learner-Bike you can slap L-Plates on and ride on CBT. You couldn't really ride it on an A2 after tests, post 19, it is a 21yr old + full unrestricted licence bike, like an R1 or a Hyabusa.....
You want to take your chances... go for it.... and odds of getting cough are pretty much your own.... you want to take them, your call. But is it worth having the bike seized and crushed 'cos you cant produce a valid insurance certificate for it, pluis the fines, plus the ban, loosing a licence you don't yet hold, that would likely see you legally and economically banned from the public highway on ANYTHING for the next decade? Remember, if you do the crime, you gotta be prepared to do the time... Are you? And is it worth it for the fun of a not very fast two-stroke 125, why be hung for a lamp as a sheep, if you are prepared to break the law why not just ride an R1 off the books, no licence, no insurance, 'cos THAT is effectively the risks you are proposing.... and you are upping the odds of detection, choosing to do it on something 'Bike-Larf' and probably bright tango-toned... how many fake-tan essex girls round your way? They are probably the only things that glow more!!!
A-N-D if you come a croppa, its as oir more likely in that paperwork trail, after an accident, when a dozy bint e-stops in-front of you and you pile into her boot, and claims you weren't watching where you were going, or similar, or the bike gets nicked, and attension other than from plod gets brought on the thing, that the matter of your licence entitlement, or lack-of, the validity of ensurance, and your claims of 'restricting' (an unrestrictable bike) get shoved under the spot-light.
Like I said, its all pretty much down to you. You KNOW this isn't legal, in any way shape or form, and that you cant even 'blag' it and pretend it is, so how much that small extra bit of oomph really worth to you and are you prepared to do the time, and loose the money, for it? ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Aug 2018 Karma :
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Aug 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 11:01 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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You won't get pulled by a portable dyno (suited to peds and top speed limitations, not horsepower measurements), but you/it will be taken to a proper Dyno. It's rare, but it happens, there was a guy on this forum got dicked around for a long time despite (IIRC) being in the clear on his A2. That's assuming that a copper can't google "KTM SXC 125 power".
On any enduro/crosser type bike, you will get pulled by every copper going until they get to know that it, and you, are legit. Obviously, you're not. It's usually an easy tug (you're legit, prove it, go on your way), or you run, and they're suddenly not bored by dealing with pissheads all night, can stick on the blues and two's and rag it after you, so it'll happen.
An IN-10 will fuck up any chance of affordable insurance for, say, a decade. Not to mention the Driving Otherwise than in Accordance and the inevitable ban you get to declare for, I think, 5 years. Don't go thinking you won't crash - In fact it's hard to envisage a scenario more likely than a 17yr old jumping coming from a ped, and jumping on a light 125 enduro with a bit of oomph. I'd say it's almost inevitable.
I know because I've been there. I've had a few enduro's/motards on the road, and I'm buying another off someone on this forum now. You *will* get pulled. I'd say it was very likely you'll get Dyno'd and charged. It's obvious and an easy pull to any copper that knows anything about bikes. You're not being cheeky and rejetting after a pipe and pod filter, you're well over 2x the limit. ____________________ '98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine) |
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Andy_Pagin |
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Andy_Pagin World Chat Champion
Joined: 08 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:26 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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ThatDippyTwat wrote: | An IN-10 will fuck up any chance of affordable insurance for, say, a decade. Not to mention the Driving Otherwise than in Accordance and the inevitable ban you get to declare for, I think, 5 years. |
^^ This.
A fine or even a ban you can pretty much laugh off. But insurance is another matter. Most insurers probably won't even quote. Those that will quote will be astronomically expensive. You could tell them porkies, but they're not idiots, and lying to obtain insurance is an offence of fraud by mis-representation under the theft act. So think what car/bike would you like to have in five years from a conviction, the correct answer is none whatsoever. ____________________ They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer |
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weasley |
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weasley World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 14:14 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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I was going to ask the same. How you insuring it? The insurance will probably know it's not a compliant vehicle. Fallen at the first hurdle.
Instead of buying an illegal, fragile and peaky 125 for as lot of money, go do your test and ride what you want.
A £600 ebay special 5/600cc bike will wipe the floor with that 125... In third. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 14:52 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | Instead of buying an illegal, fragile and peaky 125 for as lot of money, go do your test and ride what you want. |
From other thread, he's only just or only just about to be 17, so even if he did tests, they'd still only be for an A1-15bhp max, 125 only licence. He couldn't take tests for 45bhp, A2 or RWYL 'A' for at least another two years, even if he had the inclination. The system sucks... but it still the system.. suck it up! They have tightened up on the 'cheats' as far as unrestricted or de-restricted Learner bikes, the restrictions are now applied to the licence, not the machine, you got to be 100% sure what you ride is in accordance, and as far as plod are concerned, they have changed the laws about now so its guilty until proven innocent on a lot of things, like this.
Anyway, kid has on open forum... publicised his intent to break the law... smart move there And even smarter, is so cluieless he wants a nice dummies guide to breaking the law, writing for him! Criminal Genius FAIL ,me-thinks!!!!! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 16:18 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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The advice you've been given here is good.
To answer your question about the type of copper who will stop you, it's traffic police. There used to be kids hooning around on off-road bikes in a local park. They were apparently legally owned, but you can't do that in parks. The police did nothing about it for years as hardly anyone went there. Then some local busybodies/snobby types complained to the police commissioner, who must have told local cops to deal with it, as they came down heavy and stopped the problem almost overnight. That's all it takes. Someone important changing a local priority. It could happen. They could do a swoop on your college car park one day. Easy pickings. When cops act, they tend to not pick up on one thing but look for more reasons to back up their action. The details you gave the insurer will come under the spotlight. Is your exhaust compliant? They will look for more things to book you.
Don't assume traffic police are uninformed. They likely are, and crossers are on their radar in some areas because of the theft epidemic. I don't ride an off-road type of bike, I'm a grown-up, and even I have been followed by traffic police for miles while they presumably checked ANPR and my riding. On the other hand, normal cops seem to be a bit ignorant around my way, and probably won't know enough to bother pulling you over.
You seem to be a reasonable person and capable of understanding the risks. There are plenty of dumb kids about - don't be one. |
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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 18:34 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | In that case, just get an R1 and ride it without L-plates. Just as illegal, probably cheaper and definately harder to catch. |
I wonder if Peebles has forgiven/forgotten yet....
I was the local bobbies most wanted for a while. I used to take the Cota comper over to a girls house, 'cos, well you do that sort of thing when you are a hormone charged 15 year old.... I managed to con her old-man it was 'ownlee' a 50, holding my hand over the '2' on the side panel when he inspected the thing; he WAS suspicious about the size of the cylinder, though, but I blagged that telling him how it was a comper, built for walking pace trials, so it was all heat-sinking 'cos it would never get any air-flo... I don't think he was particularly convinced, but looked at the lack of pillion (and actually, rider!) provisions, decided if his daughter was daft enough to try getting on the back, she probably deserved all she got.... but he was a News-Agent not a special agent!
Anyhow, on one trip back, local beat bobby in his panda, was just in-front going into a set of S-Bends, and 'committed' I went for it and passed, on the entry, then dived up a side turn; up the hill, past the cow farm, and down, through their meadow gateway, and quickly laid the bike down behind the hedge.. wilst I listened to the siren, get louder, then stop, as they tried to decide which way I'd gone... then some more while it faded away.. then again when it came back! Until it faded again.... and I braved pushing the bike into the wood, and back home....
You know competition trials bikes are supposed to be quite light.. mine apparently weighs less than 75Kg.... they BLUDY ENT, I tell you, when you have to chuck one over a stock fence!
ANYWAY, that coppa spent the best part of half a year trying to catch me.. and instead caught Peebles, on his big brothers AR50, up by the railway station!!!
Spotted he'd bought himself some kind of Hardley on farce broke a couple of months back... but apparently after the fines and the ban... (do you think I should under-line that for our Oh-Pee?), it took him almost twenty years to get back on a bike on the road!!!!
Sorrry Peebles! REALLY, I am... maybe! Lol! Different times. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 21:02 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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The insurance usually has a get-out stipulating you must have an appropriate licence to ride the bike you are insured for.
You can't refuse a dyno test or defer a vehicle inspection if the person doing the asking is a VOSA vehicle inspector and I'd expect the cops to have brought one along with them if they were doing a mob-handed raid on a location.
I've seen them do it on an A-road in Scotland where they set up a mobile police station in a layby and stopped EVERY bike that went past to check the exhaust and measure (yes, with a ruler) the number plates. The irony was that a section of the Scottish classic 6-days trial was happening just down the road with pre '65 trials bikes with nae lights and tip-exed on numberplates flying up and down.
I've also heard of VOSA taking a bike away and giving it back months later in bits because they dismantled it to check it wasn't a ringer.
I once got stopped by a copper riding my Dads Kawasaki S2 350 triple because back in the day, you could ride a 250 on L-plates and it wasn't uncommon for people to put 250 side panels on a 350 or 400. The only reason he stopped me was to have a look at the bike and prove to the younger copper that he could "spot a 350 from a mile away".
Oh, and knobblies on a dyno.
https://youtu.be/PiinhMMwJKE ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 21:08 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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2strokebloke wrote: | As a final question, Is there any way to tell just by looking that a 125 exceeds the power limit or not provided no modification |
YES, plod looks at your bike, sees it says KTM 125 EXS on the side, has absolutely no idea how much one of them 'should' make, so gets back in his car and googles it..... oh-dear.....
As said, the framing of the legislation puts the onus of proof to prove your innocence on you, not plod to prove your guilt.... and they and courts go by the manufacturers brochure claims... not what your actual example may or may not make on a dyno, with or without knoblies, with or without a diddled CDi and hidden switch.... MANUFACTURERS CLAIMS in the brochure.
Which they would get, as hintimated, most likely from a quick google search on their smart-phone... and oh-dear oh-dear,. what will come up in the first 20 hits for "KTM 125 SXC"... hmmm... yup THIS POST!!!! And PC Dibble there, has not only got your statement of intent to try being a smart arse, BUT full low down on how you hope to get away with it! GENIUS, pure criminal genius!
But hey, I'm just being condescending, cos you an L-Plater... never tried to kid any-one that a bike I shouldn't have been riding was anything but what it was, or chased by dibble through the cow-slurry, or cowered in a cow-brier waiting for plod to plod-off....
Like I say, you KNOW this aint legal, you KNOW you stand a better than even chance of being cough for it... but if you can do the time... fair play to do the crime... just don't come crying to us, or thumper-talk or any-one else you have found to support your delusions that like every criminal ever banged up... "But I should get away with it!!!!"You might.... B-U-T then again... you might not..... if not can you take the ban on licence you don't yet have, plus the crushing of your pride and joy, plus the fine, and the no real hope of any legal motor-vehicle for a decade, 2ith "Well its a fair cop" shrug?
Your call ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 21:54 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Ok then , so if a ktm is off the table , and in answer to your question my username is a reflection of my love of the 2 stroke however I would certainly ride a 4 stroke 125 on the road.
Upon reading your valid responses I have realised that I haven’t been clear as to why I am so hell bent on a ktm 125 exc or what my use will be , so the big question , why? The answer is pretty short , I have ridden my mates 125/250 swap thing , I have ridden another mates Lexmoto venom and yet another Sinnis cruisestar thing , along with a few other 4t 125s , despite outward appearances even the 250 was just boring to ride, they’re too predictable, there’s no need to keep them on the pipe and they really just feel like a tool for getting from a to b and for that they are all far superior to any 2 stroke bike , however If I wanted a boring unemotive piece of machinery I’d get a car. What draws me to the 2 stroke isn’t the power , quite frankly for my use 14bhp is more than enough, and if there were any means of reatining the feel of the ktm and restricting it , I’d do it in a heartbeat. What I’m saying is that I don’t hate 4 strokes at all , I hate that no 125cc 4 stroke is as much of a bastard to ride as say my 50cc geared bike that won’t move if you don’t stay right on the powerband and in my opinion that renders them boring if a very good commuter. Also for the sake of transparency for 3rd party fire and theft on a ktm would be £547 a year , on a cg125 it’s £1253 and I’d rather keep my far slower current interesting bike.
As for the second point about road use and rebuild times , it is very common in European continental countries for ktm 125 to be used on the road for 4500km per bottom end and 1500 per piston and rings , I do 4000 miles per year worst case , but some claim to have 8000km On a single set of bearings which means that the bike might go through 2 pistons + rings per year (a small price to pay). This is achieved with many trips averaging 3.2 miles and 4 trips per day , to college and work. So in short by my reasoning the bike wouldn’t be under that excessive a load.
Now , I’m not one of those people who can only hear what they want to hear so please tell me if I’m a fucking moron , are there any learner legal 4t 125 that won’t have me bored Within the first 10 miles like the old klx 125 (I think) , my only stipulation is that I don’t want anything fuel injected due to expense of repair if anything goes wrong I don’t need a bourn commuter either , the less predictable the better and fuel economy isn’t a concern the only other factor is insurance as I’d have the old rs125 2t If the scanmming bastards didn’t want £1300 a year third party only. Oh and not a wre 125 , they have about the worst electrical system on a bike from what I can gather
Oh and your not being condescending, I appreciate honest responses as I don’t want to end up with a bike I’m afraid to ride for fear of getting pulled |
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Kentol750 |
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Kentol750 World Chat Champion
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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 03 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 22:59 - 20 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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As the insurance on the dt is twice that of the ktm , equally my earlier point is not arguing semantics of the law , it’s that a bike must not exceed 14.8bhp to be learner legal , however I think that if the v5 says 5.8bhp then that’s the manufacturer’s claim (quite how ktm get away with that is beyond me) hence the Ïńṩüŕäńċệ willingness to provide me coverage as on vin or number plate checks they show as being learner legal , I think if I carry a copy of the v5 with the 5.8bhp then no copper could have any reasonable cause to even test the bike unless blatantly modified and google searches aside , I don’t think ANY copper would argue a v5 with the necessary “I get this all the time mr officer , the v5 states 5.8bhp even though there closer to 13😏” and I have also found substantial evidence that these bikes are ridden on l plates routinely I have in fact found video evidence that the police anpr system shows these bikes as fine even though the blokes a prick https://youtu.be/MgoVyh4vrro
Basically I’m hell set on getting one of these bikes and understand that it’s a risk as it exceeds the power limit , however due to ktm being canny and registering as 5.8bhp makes it far more difficult to spot to be honest unless I find a restricted bike that I like and can reasonably insure then I’ll probably get this bike any possible alternatives would be greatly appreciated |
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Aug 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 07:34 - 21 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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2strokebloke wrote: | Basically I’m hell set on getting one of these bikes and understand that it’s a risk as it exceeds the power limit |
As I said, It's pointless us telling you anything. You know you're utterly fucked if you get caught. We're not joking. I reckon you'll never take your A2 because you're banned and un-insurable by that point. Having been banned, trust me, it's a royal, expensive, bollock-ache.
Just so you know, Keeping a 30+ BHP 2T on the pipe, on the road, without pissing off everyone and everything else on the road, ceases to be fun after a while. You're going to get *very* familiar with top end rebuilds, well, up until the bottom end goes. Then I suspect you'll flog it on as "Doesn't start, easy fix, but no time" to some poor mong who has less of a clue than you. ____________________ '98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine) |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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2strokebloke |
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2strokebloke Two Stroke Sniffer
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Posted: 16:03 - 21 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
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Cheers for the reply , and your all totally right that some people like me don’t listen to sound advice , I started this to know what risk I was taking , and from my perspective it’s not that big , they don’t flag on anpr , don’t go that fast even in comparison to a 4t learner leagal bike and I can insure them that paired with the fact that just about every other one on eBay has l plates on , and there’s proof that loads of people on l plates ride then with no problem whatsoever means that unless I’m being a total cunt on one , the odds of me being pulled , then questioned, then actually have the bike tested are incredibly small , as if they weren’t there wouldn’t be any de restricted rs125 or mitos on the road.
Now I appreciate you all having the benefit of much more expirence than me, and trying to scare me out of doing it to save me the trouble , however a number of people have pm me regarding this very question and told me the above. So I thank you all for your informative responses and for giving me perspective |
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 157 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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