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The great Brexit future 2019 vs 2020 reality thread

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Euro politicos looked happy. The Tory majority makes things easier for negotiations next year i suppose. So thats possibly a good thing already?
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WreckTangle
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
The Euro politicos looked happy. The Tory majority makes things easier for negotiations next year i suppose. So thats possibly a good thing already?


yeah, I think of eu are fed up of having to constantly extend the leaving time date, I think they will be finally glad to see us go. how many times do you think we would have kept pushing that sodding date back before they just gave up and declared war?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Labour are not an anti-brexit party.

They voted for article 50 and stood on a manifesto of negotiating a deal with the EU then having a second referrendum with remain as an option. The Labour leader would not be drawn on which he would support.

So, go back and redo your spreadsheet.

EDIT: In any case, Boris did not win the election. Jeremy lost it.


It was a pretty clear Brexit election to me. Tories lost a few remain voters going to Lib Dem, but made up for it with Labour voters going Tory for the sake of Brexit.

I think Labour's biggest loss was the Brexit demographic. The Labour Brexit strategy was fine enough, but too many in the country are fixated on it like hungry children, they just wanted to... Get Brexit Done.


Brexit was a reason. So was the Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott axis. I cannot think of a more hated group of people. They even make Michael Foot look a better choice.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe the Euro-politicos look happy because they know we're about to sign up to BRINO and Farage didn't have his way.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Re: The great Brexit future 2019 vs 2020 reality thread Reply with quote
Val wrote:
Starting a new thread for

Well, looking at it, trolling and spreading poison.
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andys675
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can't see how voting for Corbyn would have given us a brexit choice, all he had to do was cook up a shit deal everyone would have rejected and we would have remained, which is what I think they wanted, the "democratic" rehash was for votes
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 14 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
andys675 wrote:
I can't see how voting for Corbyn would have given us a brexit choice, all he had to do was cook up a shit deal everyone would have rejected and we would have remained, which is what I think they wanted, the "democratic" rehash was for votes


Leave as in leave with no deal was never going to be an option offered. That alone made it a stitch up.
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hume
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Corbyn was trying to be Mr Sensible. I think he recognised that a responsible government has to care for everyone whichever way they voted in the referendum but that position was too nuanced for the electorate and looked like vacillating. Its mad because Corbyn is a genuine euro-sceptic not just a band wagon rider like Boris.

Is "Mr. Sensible" a genuine Euro-sceptic, or has he simply made a career of being a deliberate rebel. It has made him look principled to naive students and champagne socialists, and popular with underdogs. It also means you never have to progress anything because it's always blocked by 'the establishment'. "Not your fault, Jeremy, at least you tried." Get Brexit Done was the perfect counter to his indecision.

The Labour membership has changed and Corbyn's been getting such adoration from the partisans he didn't realise ordinary people didn't like him or his manifesto. It was apparent in the TV debates when he was laughed at. Boris was too but he seemed to know it was coming. In contrast Corbyn appeared genuinely taken aback.

Now Corbyn is hanging on a while longer so he can steer a like-minded candidate into the leadership*, continuing his dream but stupidly ensuring they won't get in next time either. They'll never learn.

* Angela Rayner?


Angela Rayner is a new kind of low.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
From what I've seen labour are pretty pissed of at the whole Corbyn/momemtum movement

I think they'll end up swinging back to center right, given how badly they done in this election.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
If they don't they are toast.

If someone as bad as Boris, and I admit he's not the most riveting leader, can get the majority he did then they have to cull the far left. Now whether they do that is another thing.

If they stick Thornberry in the top job they are asking for more trouble. She's a white Diane. Puke
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
To think all Corbyn had to do was lie saying he would just carry Brexit through. Does he know nothing about politics Rolling Eyes

I do wonder just how many votes Labour lost purely on the Brexit vagueness alone.

Last edited by Ribenapigeon on 11:41 - 15 Dec 2019; edited 1 time in total
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dunno, for now Kier Starmer or Jess Phillips seem like sane choices.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
To think all Corbyn had to do was lie saying he would just carry Brexit through. Does he know nothing about politics Rolling Eyes

I do wonder just how many votes Labour lost purely on the Brexit vagueness alone.


There no doubt clear direction on brexit was a key factor in people voting Tory.

However a lot of people older than me still remember the strikes, the three day week and bin bags piled up in the street during the winter of discontent and did not want to a repeat of that which is what Corbyn would have brought, and much worse.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
To think all Corbyn had to do was lie saying he would just carry Brexit through. Does he know nothing about politics Rolling Eyes

I do wonder just how many votes Labour lost purely on the Brexit vagueness alone.


Maybe a lot but in my group of friends, mostly ex military, merchant navy and the like Corbyn was nothing but a traitor and a hater of the armed forces. His links with the IRA can never be forgiven and that was the turn off. He could have offered gold unicorns and still not got their vote.

There was so much wrong with him on so many levels. Different groups had different dislikes.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
That was also a common theme amongst people i spoke to
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thatcher was right all along. Being in the EU was never the right deal for the UK - https://youtu.be/rNLVeAQvzn8
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

.

There was so much wrong with him on so many levels. Different groups had different dislikes.


Yes I know there were other reasons, I was wondering how many were lost purely on the Brexit issue.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:

.

There was so much wrong with him on so many levels. Different groups had different dislikes.


Yes I know there were other reasons, I was wondering how many were lost purely on the Brexit issue.


I don't know because you would think if it was Brexit that the LibDems would have done better with the remain voters flocking to them, but they collapsed.

The only other way to look at it is that many many people just wanted it done, both to get it over and because democracy said leave and politicians said no, so fcuk them. Better Boris's turd than more years of prevaricating.
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hume
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
From what I've seen labour are pretty pissed of at the whole Corbyn/momemtum movement

I think they'll end up swinging back to center right, given how badly they done in this election.


They will be staying on the hard left, which is why Corbyn hasn't resigned. Labour\Momentum are looking for his clone to replace him.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
I dunno, for now Kier Starmer or Jess Phillips seem like sane choices.


I find Jess Phillips more toxic than most people found Corbyn. She comes across as a raging man-hater who deliberately wants to turn every conversation into one where she can say, "Did you just insult me?", to forge some sort of fake moral high ground for herself.

Kier Starmer however has some form. Sensible bloke, well educated, high ranking legal professional. It would be interesting to see what the mainstream media can pull up to attack him. I can't think of any controversy he's been involved in.

Last edited by Lord Percy on 14:41 - 15 Dec 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
I dunno, for now Kier Starmer or Jess Phillips seem like sane choices.


find Jess Phillips more toxic than most people found Corbyn. She comes across as a raging man-hater who deliberately wants to turn every conversation into one where she can say, "Did you just insult me?", to forge some sort of fake moral high ground for herself.

Kier Starmer however has some form. Sensible bloke, well educated, high ranking legal professional. It would be interesting to see what the mainstream media can pull up to attack him. I can't think of any controversy he's been involved in.


Starmer is the kind of shit that would thrive in the Lib dems

Labour need someone sensible, unfortunately , the likes of Catherine Flint , Mel ONN have lost their seats
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

https://www.libdemvoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Lib-Dems-winning-here1.jpg
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SpeedyCBR1100
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bring back Winnie! A man of real vision.

"We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea."
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
I dunno, for now Kier Starmer or Jess Phillips seem like sane choices.


I find Jess Phillips more toxic than most people found Corbyn. She comes across as a raging man-hater who deliberately wants to turn every conversation into one where she can say, "Did you just insult me?", to forge some sort of fake moral high ground for herself.

Kier Starmer however has some form. Sensible bloke, well educated, high ranking legal professional. It would be interesting to see what the mainstream media can pull up to attack him. I can't think of any controversy he's been involved in.


I presume you are saying that because of the alleged attacks on Corbyn.

The problem Corbyn had was they didn't need to dig to get the dirt on him, it was there for everyone to see in so many fields.

Add in Abbott and McDonnell (although to give Corbyn his due, he kept Abbott amazingly quiet) and it was too toxic for middle of the road voters.

Even now none of the Labour hierarchy will admit it. It was Brexit or our policies were accepted by the voters but for some reason we still lost. I'm surprised they haven't come out all called the electorate thick racist gammons yet.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 15 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


I don't know because you would think if it was Brexit that the LibDems would have done better with the remain voters flocking to them, but they collapsed.



Swinson was just too arrogant, there's no way i could have voted for the lib dems led by her, plus, instead of just offering to revoke article 50, they should have stipulated a 2nd referendum..

Labour, I couldn't have cared less about their brexit stance, no way on earth I was going to vote for a Corbyn led party.

Don't especially like Boris, and, although, my own personal choice is we should not be leaving the EU, may as well just get on with things now, and, see what he can do. As for Boris' premiership, it's success is going to largely depend on the quality of his advisors etc, he can be the 'car saleman' as it were..
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