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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Money for nothing... Reply with quote

BBC News wrote:
Bet365: UK's best-paid boss hits £323m jackpot


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50834994

This may be a bit of a shock but I don't consider myself one of those "tax the rich" socialist types. This story made me feel a little sick.

Consider: Bob Dudley, boss of BP, had his wages "slashed" to $15m by a shareholder revolt. BP... arch-nemesis of tree huggers they may be but no one could deny they make stuff. Get the oil, refine the oil, ship the oil. Stuff is being done for the money! Jeff Fairburn gets £50m for building houses, Jeremy Darroch at Sky gets £17m... basically lots of big wedge for tangible product.

WTF is Bet365? A fecking economic parasite that only produces misery for its client-base. Of less benefit to society than even the government Shocked
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same could be said about every gambling product. However you can't ban them, it just goes underground.

The thing it shows is how much they make from gamblers.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only 2 shops survive a deep recession.
The off licence and the bookies.

The knocking shop is around the corner.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

He doesn't get anything from me.
Is it compulsory to use it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
Only 2 shops survive a deep recession.
The off licence and the bookies.

The knocking shop is around the corner.


Beer and tabs are at least physical products. And knocking shops I would guess intend every client to leave happier than when they went in Rolling Eyes

I suppose on the plus side there are some web developers in jobs but that's scant consolation.

It's the sheer amount of money that boggles my mind. To be fair I only ever go in bookies when it's a really hot summer 'cos they always have great air conditioning so I admit I don't really understand gambling beyond the mathematics.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
He doesn't get anything from me.
Is it compulsory to use it.


"He" is a she Smile Glass ceiling smashed, well done ladies!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 18 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit! It isn't my lucky day Sad

Please be careful about thread titles chaps, false hopes can be built Laughing
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a friend lives in Gateshead. There's little work and she works in a bookies because she has to - it breaks her heart seeing the misery that shop does to people. We've spoken on the phone while she's served customers and you can hear to discomfort in her voice as she serves someone with next to nothing in their lives except an addiction.
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WreckTangle
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a sister who worked a bookies as a part time job many years ago. The majority of people who went to bookies were the people who were on benefits.

Makes you think, your hard earned tax money is being used to pay people on benefits....so that they can go to the bookies (and make this man stupidly rich)

hey, thats how society works now.... Eh?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

WreckTangle wrote:
I had a sister who worked a bookies as a part time job many years ago. The majority of people who went to bookies were the people who were on benefits.

Makes you think, your hard earned tax money is being used to pay people on benefits....so that they can go to the bookies (and make this man stupidly rich)

hey, thats how society works now.... Eh?


It's fuel for the argument you should get the modern equivalent of food stamps but that's never going to happen.

When I lived on a sink estate (ok, it was many years ago) the amount of people who would go straight from the post office to the pub on giro day was ridiculous. I doubt it's changed much except for the worse with online gambling and casinos huge now.

The lottery doest help either. In the local Tescos on the estate next to mine I've seen people go in, buy some milk and a few other things and then spend £20 on scratch cards.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear: the boss of Bet365 is Denise Coates... a woman! She's worth close to ten billion quid. Yes, a billionaire Shocked

Jeez, at least you know that some of the lotto money goes back to the government and charities (even if you disagree with exactly how it's spent.)

Of course she does a lot of work for charity herself. A good chunk of which goes abroad...
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've met quite a few people with gambling addictions.

The point made to me (and well taken) is you can only spend so much on booze before you lose your senses/pass out. But with gambling you can spend thousands in a night and just keep going...
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate gambling. Ive had so many clients over the years with different kinds of addictions. Gambling isn't taken nearly as seriously as other forms of addiction as people can understand how chemicals can undermine the proper functioning of the brain but it's not appreciated how gambling psychologically undermines the mind. I personally think that using what is effectively a vulnerability in human psychology to create a loophole which allows the bookies to get a person to hand over money should be illegal.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Of course she does a lot of work for charity herself. A good chunk of which goes abroad...


Jimmy Saville syndrome.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this interesting article on gambling
https://theconversation.com/designed-to-deceive-how-gambling-distorts-reality-and-hooks-your-brain-91052
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
In the local Tescos on the estate next to mine I've seen people go in, buy some milk and a few other things and then spend £20 on scratch cards.

My lad used to worked on a Tesco checkout until recently and saw this All. The. Time. He said it was absolutely soul-destroying to see. He tried his best to dissuade them from spending ever more and more, when out of managers' earshot, but obviously it was more than a bit difficult. One of his regular punters once came up to him at the till when skint, and literally begged him not to sell him any more scratch cards next time he asked for them ("WTF am I supposed to do with that??", my son asked himself) - but in fact, bizarrely that's actually what happened - no argument, the bloke just walked out again. I expect he shops somewhere else now!

Ribenapigeon wrote:
I personally think that using what is effectively a vulnerability in human psychology to create a loophole which allows the bookies to get a person to hand over money should be illegal.

I don't deny the sentiments but you surely realise that if that were the case, gambling would just be driven underground and would become an even more serious issue for those afflicted.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:


tl;dr Gambling can affect brain chemistry - it's not only hard drugs that can fuck you up, kids! (The "near miss" thing is particularly insightful.)

Although I understand gambling addiction it's the same way I understand there's no air in space - something nebulous and far away. I can't see how I could manage to traipse down to a bookies with some vain hope but the same, sad outcome every week.

We need to teach the brain to get bored of things that are harmful - boredom is more powerful than fear in this pampered age.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's difficult to imagine how you can let something that isn't a physical addiction destroy your life. I can understand drugs, I can understand booze but I just can't understand gambling even after reading that piece.

I've been in numerous casinos and enjoyed myself but I can't recall getting a buzz or a high like I have with drugs or booze. I do the lottery online as I can't be arsed to check it.

I have been sports betting with the same £40 I won a few years back when I betted a pound that NZ and the British Lions would draw. I usually bet a pound a week on a small accumulator. Sometimes I win, most times I don't. It doesn't actually bother me.

I certainly don't dispute the negative effects of gambling, but I have a question probably for Ribenapigeon. Is it only an addiction if you do it when you can't afford it, when it is destroying your life or can you be a stinking rich bastard and still have it classed as an addiction, even if you can afford it easily? A bit like City slicker cocaine users who would probably totally deny they were addicts.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

I don't deny the sentiments but you surely realise that if that were the case, gambling would just be driven underground and would become an even more serious issue for those afflicted.


You could say the same about any abusive behaviour. After all crime is by its nature "underground" but we still have a concept of criminality which we don't avoid simply because to enshrine that taboo in law then drives such activity into the shadows. Tellingly i once heard it said that all crime is essentially theft, from the obvious stealing of goods to the more conceptual taking of someones dignity by way of abuse. Taking money through operating gambling manages to fit that concept across the board.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 19 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

I certainly don't dispute the negative effects of gambling, but I have a question probably for Ribenapigeon. Is it only an addiction if you do it when you can't afford it, when it is destroying your life or can you be a stinking rich bastard and still have it classed as an addiction, even if you can afford it easily? A bit like City slicker cocaine users who would probably totally deny they were addicts.


Here's a pretty good academic definition
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323465.php

Lots of activities could have a gambling type element to them, motorcycles for instance. The thing is bike manufacturers are not simply exploiting our brains liability to experience a little dopamine high to sell us bikes. In fact unlike gambling companies, who will seek to play down the risks bike manufacturers probably exaggerate the risks to sell the edginess of biking. I also suspect an awful lot of people who work in gambling and promote gambling are themselves if not outright addicts then close to it. If wealthy then rather like rich alcoholics and drug addicts they may not be aware of it until its too late.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 20 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikes and the like at least incorporate one of my favourite phrases plausible deniability, yeah, I err... need a litre bike 'cos I ride to Wales once a year to see my granddad and err... it's like super annoying the rest of the time and I really don't enjoy it, honest! Shifty
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 20 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loot boxes are preparing kids to be gamblers. Thumbs Up
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 20 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Loot boxes are preparing kids to be gamblers. Thumbs Up


The whole culture of "gaming" is a demonstration of game theory as applied to capitalist exploitation of a market. The fact it's children being targeted and groomed is pretty sick.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 20 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to look up loot box.

If I've read it right you're basically saying doing something in a video games transposes into real life with some people.

If that is true isn't that fuel for the 'curb the video violence' as well.

Where do you stop with the nanny state?
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 20 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MMO RPG companies were addicting kids to those games then encouraging gambling and squeezing cash out of them while attacking other companies through the courts that mitigated some of the damage they were doing before lootboxes became an issue. Problems which are worse than a simple lootbox plus they can hide their gambling behind a more complex mechanism.



Ribenapigeon wrote:


That looks like a good article.
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