Honda CB650 or CB1000r

[J30NNN]

Hi,

In the process of doing my DAS (CBT complete). Bought clothing and a helmet and enjoying my lessons. I am 43 so late to the party! Been driving cars since 17 and no desire for crazy speed or a sports bike.

Now thinking ahead to buying a bike in the future. I plan to use it to commute to work (38 miles round trip) combined with the odd weekend run as I build experience.

I had planned to get a Honda CB650 as I thought that that CB650 was a good starting point. My instructor suggested that I could get bored quickly after 6 months and that I should look at some more "lively" options (he seems confident that I will be safe but appreciate that he is not riding it and has many years of experience). Am I crazy to be looking at the CB1000R? Is it a fire breathing monster that will throw me off and scare me?

As mentioned, I am not keen on "flying" around and I am more mature. The diffence in insurance is £20 for the 1000cc bike (an advantage of being old I suppose). Is it overkill for a beginner planning to commute and ride the odd 50/60 miles on a Sunday?

[Easy-X]

Depends on the roads you'll be encountering. If it's all city stuff you might be better off with a twist and go scooter

Seriously though if most of the journey is on dual carriageway or motorway you'd be really appreciative of the bigger bike which should be more stable at higher speeds. (Depends on the bike, YMMV, etc.)

For a mixture of road types, that's where a 650 excels: jack of all trades, master of none.

You'll get bored of any motorbike after 6 months, don't sweat it. "Oh but my litre bike is soooo much fun on the road!" and then you get sick of the weight; constantly manoeuvring it in and out the garage
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bhud]

Good instructors fill you with confidence.

[chickenstrip]

I don't think it's so much the idea of a 650 that will quickly get boring as choosing a Honda 650. Honda seem to have this knack of making bikes that do things very well but without a sniff of character. But if speed isn't your thing, I daresay it'd be adequate. Personally, I prefer something a little more than "adequate" when it comes to bikes.

Haven't got bored with my litre bike yet nearly 4 years into ownership and having owned 4 others before that, just to show that you can't generalise these things

You can always chop it in for something else later - most people go through several bikes in their riding careers. Part of the fun is trying something different now and again.
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[stinkwheel]

In fairness, the 93 bhp a CB650R is supposedly kicking out should keep you busy for a while yet.

If it seems slow and boring, ensure you have the throttle wide open to the stop, put the rev counter in the upper quarter of the rev range and have another think.

A litre bike will deliver lazier power but you aren't going to come close to the potential of either during road riding.

Considered a VFR?

If It's a naked "street" bike you're after, I'd encourage you to have a look at what triumph are offering.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kentol750]

Are you looking at the new model (post 2018)? If so, the thou is a hell of a lot of bike. The pre 18my 125bhp model is still awesome (Mrs k had one until xmas) but not as unforgiving as the newer bike. All 4 bikes can still get you into trouble very quickly, but, the thou over the 650 for longevity and build quality would win for me. (Plus your cheap insurance quote.) Imho, buy whichever bike you like the look of most after test riding them.
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Some bikes.

[J30NNN]

Thanks Easy-X. It is a mix of town and dual carriageway. The scooter might be good for the town part but don’t fancy it for the faster stuff. Can imagine with the boredom factor.

Bhud - yes, instructor has been great so far. Easy to learn from and builds confidence but also highlights safety first.

Chickenstrip - I can imagine that a litre bike will be great. Just a little bit cautious as I have read lots about starting out with a 600/650 and building up. I wonder if it might be too unforgiving for a new rider?

Stinkwheel - I like the VFR but the bikes with a fairing seem to be about £200 more to insure (imagine down to bodywork in even of a drop/spill). That was my reasoning for looking at the “street” bikes. Plus, I thought that the non faired stuff would keep me in check with speed. I do like the Triumphs but insurance seems to be double the Honda premiums.

Kentol750 - it would be pre 2018 (likely to be 2011 - 2013 model). I am tempted by the 1000 but just a bit apprehensive that it would be too much. How did Mrs K find it?

[chickenstrip]

[J30NNN]

[Kentol750]

The cb was a great bike. Used for commuting and fun, it only needed tyres in 3 yrs. The only reason she got something else, was the usual... shiny and different! Oh, and new one felt wider (she's only 5'4"ish). I like them a lot too. I nearly bought one to replace a 900 hornet, but, they took the piss on part ex. So I went elsewhere and got a fireblade!

However, as chickenstrip points out, your self control is everything. Getting some extra training is a very good idea. Acceleration of a cb thou can get very addictive!
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Some bikes.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

which ever one is lightest

out of interest, what are the respective weights of these bikes?
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[chickenstrip]

[Kentol750]

Cb650f, 208 kg 85bhp. Cb1000r, 217kg 124bhp. Cb600f hornet (2012) 173kg dry!!. 102bhp.

With those numbers,and having ridden all 3, the thou has it for me, but a good condition late model hornet 600 also makes a lot of sense as a first bike.
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Some bikes.

[UncleFester]

If you get any of those bikes, save some money for a seat with some padding in it - the 650 is particularly square / hard.

I'd not discount a Z1000 / Z900 either .... if you want naked fun
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[J30NNN]

Thanks guys

I am leaning towards the 1000 but I will also look at the Z1000/Z900.

I sat on the 650 and did wonder about the seat.

Also, the BMW F800r has also taken my eye. Any thoughts on that? Think the bike looks good but the headlight is dated?

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Yeah - so many contemporary bikes seem to have neglected seat ergonomics. Just look at what happened w/ the mt09. The very worst is said to be the ktm 690 - ok, it does have some enduro in its blood, but still. For what I'd guess would be a 50/50 on/off road sort of bike - dual sport, as the yanks say - it should have a kinder seat.

My comfiest bike is the zx9r from late '90s - the seat itself isn't particularly comfy, but the way you sit on it, and the fact it's comparatively broad of beam, means your weight spreads out a bit and pressure points are minimised. Also, the slight canting forward due to (above the yoke) clip ons means less weight on the saddle. And btw it is a saddle - it kind of looks like one in a way, or one that's been flattened out at least. Consequently, the zx9r is comfier even than my '90s cb500 - to me, at any rate. Comfy though the 500 is, it's as though the subframe starts to make itself felt after an hour or so. Ironically one of the least comfy bikes i had was a w650 which had the most sensible ergonomics imaginable yet would start to feel painful butt-wise after an hour. After two it was just too much.

Anyway, about the F800 - I've only ridden the GS incarnation, on a demo day, for about 30-45 minutes. It's one of the few bikes I've ever been on that I concluded was genuinely fucking shit. At first comfy, soon VERY uncomfy. And the engine is a gutless pile of crap - really seems to lack anything resembling oomph anywhere - shit, my KLX250 seems to pull better. MAybe the R is better. I wouldn't go near it myself though. Same day I also test rode an r1200rt - for a fat, long bastard that was actually a good bike I thought. WAY comfier than the F800 believe it or not. Probably cost half as much again though.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[J30NNN]

Trevor that made me laugh - "genuinely fucking shit"!

It sounds like I should steer clear of that then. I did notice a R1200r (naked bike) but I wondered if it looks too dated. 11 plate with 22k. I know they do not really look exciting but reviews seem ok (not sure if the looks do much for me - looks functional)?

[Kentol750]

F800r is better than the bland 800gs. But not a patch on the cb. Z900 is a good shout. The r1200r is what Mrs k changed the cb1000r for. The ride was different and power weight about the same, but she loved the boxer twin and how it goes.
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Some bikes.

[J30NNN]

Kentol750 - thanks.

I am going to take a look at the Z900. I think that I might favour the cb over the F800r anyway on the basis of looks/reviews and the advice from yourself and Trevor. The newer style r1200r is a nice bike but as the budget is £3.5 to £4.5, I know that the newer style ones (2015 on) are beyond budget - maybe one for the future.

Difficult to make a decision as most places do not allow a test ride until you have held a full licence for a year. Therefore, decisions will be based on looks, reviews and advice gained on here.

[UncleFester]

Plenty bikes in that budget.

1st proper bike will teach you about bigger bikes, you won't need to love or loathe it and after a year you'll be able to do whatever you like anyway.

You are probably going to drop it, at least once so get crash bungs fitted if you buy something shiny.

If it was me ( and i appreciate it isn't) i'd go spank < a grand on a CB500 or a Hornet 600/900 where you won't lose any money on it. Cheap enough to use / abuse and fast enough to be fun. They are reliable, proven and common so parts are cheap and plentiful.

Equally you might buy the bike you spend the next 4 years on - who knows

To add some context, went from a YBR125 to the CB500 - felt like a rocketship but after 6 months i realised it was quickish up to about 80 but there was nothing much after that and cracking the throttle at 60 wasn't feeling quick after a year on it. Went to a Z1000SX which is just a much newer bigger better more powerful bike.

All 3 bikes bought on a whim, none of them after a test ride. All bought because i liked the look, felt comfy sat on them and they fitted. No regrets about any of those purchase. There are very few bad bikes but there are loads you will never gel with if you're not comfortable on it / don't fit it.
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[J30NNN]

Unclebfester - good advice.

My only thought with the ones that I am looking at is that they all have ABS (less common on older bikes I think). As I am planning to ride it to work most days (except in heavy rain/sub zero tempretures where I will take the car), I though that ABS is probably a wise idea.

I can imagine that the year on a Hornet would be a good idea but I am just keen to maybe get something that I can hang onto for 3/4 years and "grow" into. Appreciate that I might not do that! Have kept cars for a year and changed them.

Sounds like fit and looks are my starting point. Suppose that I can always sell if it I do not get on with it or get bored!

[ThatDippyTwat]

Another vote for a CB600F/Hornet - solid, reliable, good resale value, plenty about and plenty of spares and advice available. Whip it over 7K and it's got a bit of get up and go, but is docile around town under 7K. It's not particularly heavy. A Hornet will probably do you for a couple of years, It's a pretty capable, but not mindblowing, bike. There's a reason they are usually recommended and keep value well.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[J30NNN]

Thanks, I will take a look at the. If they hold their value then it could be a good starting point.

[J30NNN]

Any thoughts on a Triumph Street Triple? Sat on one yesterday and it felt light and manageable. Insurance is about £250 more than other options. Good bet for a new rider and any idea why the insurance is higher? Greater theft risk or better performance?