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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 11:38 - 27 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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To address peoples comments (and I'll keep it generic)
1.) Yes, the 300s are built down to a budget because people won't pay 1000cc money for a 300, even if they cost nearly the same to build. This means cost cutting is essential for that segment. Cheap suspension, cheap brakes, lower build quality etc.
2.) The Street Triple and MT-09 are a bit much for a n00b. My street Triple is great fun, but it is something of an animal, and will surprise you if you're unwary. I'm not saying it's a lethal b'stard like a '98 R1 or a TL1000S or something, but I'm saying it's urgent, sharp and urges you to ride like a nut. That's why it's the bike I've owned for the longest out of all of my bikes, and I'll hopefully never get rid of it.
3.) The MT-07. Every review I've read, every opinion I've heard, every video I've watched all say the same thing. That it's great fun in the same vein as something like an 09 or Street Triple, but that its a lot cheaper and doesn't have quite so much power. The newer 2018 onwards one is supposed to be the one to go for. Alternatively I could reccomend the heavier ER6/Z650 or the Suzuki SV650... but we all know what the forum thinks of those don't we?
The Kwak is heavier but really nicely built, and the Suzuki is lighter in older incarnations, but the current one has gained a bit of bloat and they were never built all that well. That's why the MT seems to be the one to go for.
I'd not bother with a 300. My first big bike had 55ish bhp, and that did seem like a rocketship for about a week. I think any rider would get pretty bored of a 300 in very short order. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 01:19 - 28 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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Depends on if its an only bike though?
Saying don't bother with a 300cc and that 55bhp bored you after a week isn't much good to an A2 guy/girl? You might as well say sit at home until you can be eligible to do an A test, and more importantly insure a 600-900cc bike.
I've had a fair few bikes under 300cc and found fun and lasting enjoyment from them for all different reasons. But then again I've never really owned just one bike at a time or not had a car to drive all the time I've owned bikes. So I've never had to slog up and down 100mile stretches of wet soggy windy motorway everyday on a small light commuter or learner bike out of necessity, and I never will.
But I've had the following small bikes as examples and can honestly say I've enjoyed riding them all, and none of them bored me after a week:
Honda CG125, Yamaha XT125, Kawasaki KMX 125 and 200, Aprilia SR125, Yamaha TZR250, and probably a few more bikes under 300cc besides.
I think the 90's ethos and attitude of pass test ASAP and get a big loud sports bike to thrash round on Sundays and evenings has long passed too. With more traffic, worse roads and bikes getting too much for mortals to handle, your 600-1000cc race replicas and that whole era and interest has gone now.
I haven't got a problem with some of the 250-500cc bikes that the manufacturer's are putting out now, but they could be so much better too. Then again if they cost big bike money, are really focused, or have high end componentry, and are too demanding then they won't sell anyway.
Remember that the A2 regulations have crippled the manufacturers too. KTM tried to go light, trick and fairly serious with the 390cc bikes, and ended up having to restrict the power well below the 47bhp limit to stay legal.
I remember when the Aprilia RS250 came out, and as gorgeous as it looked it was over GSXR600 money, so what is the average stable human being going to buy? |
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redeem ouzzer |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:12 - 28 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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Forced wrote: | The culture now is “small bike, must be cheaper” hence the tolerance for horrible 4t twins, crap suspension and cheap finish. |
This comment is bit about face. 'Horrible' 4T twins, crap suspension and crap finish... well you have probably just described the best part of twenty years output from almost any of the European and British factories for quarter of a century.... when the bench-mark motorcycle was the Triumph 'Speed-Twin' derived Bonneville... and the Japanese factories followed that vogue with bikes like the XS500/650 and later the W650, long enough....
Its a curious phenomenon, that the Japs, having gone techno-crazy in the 80's, on a wave of protectionist Japanese legislation and Banking regulation that let them, have fallen back on the exact same sort of thinking, sited as having 'Killed' the incumbent Brit-Bike.... and more... come around to a 'Product', not a lot different to it... Ie a cheap to manufacture, lower rent build quality parallel Twin...
Also curious is that the Japanese, after building their reputations on these techno-wonders of the 70's, 80's and 90's, have, like the Brit-Bike-Industry of old, 'retrenched' in to the 'cream' market of 'big bikes', where they can be sold at a premium rather than just on cost or performance, and farmed out manufacture of smaller bikes and more budget bikes to places like Tiwan and China... oh-so-very much like the criticisms shouted at Brummie managers forty years ago.....
As such, the lesson of ages, would seem to be that the 'boring' four-stroke twin, actually isn't such a bad idea, and actually its the over convoluted two-strokes and multi-cylinder marvels that have been relegated to the side-lines, as having 'proven' to be not such a great thing..... technically marvellous, maybe... but only because of an essentially subsidised economy that let them get manufactured for 'consumer' sale, and 'exciting' only because of the technology, and the performance that came with it.... to a now ageing demographic of buyers, who where significantly ';sold' motorbikes, not as a mere way to work, but 'life-style-accessory'...... who are now moaning as the wheel revolves full circle....
Ie; the 'crap suspension, 4T twin' comment, IS peculiarly arse about. They techno marvels of the intervening years are the anomaly in the middle, not the bikes either end of it, that are remarkably similar both in form and function.... ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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redeem ouzzer |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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MarJay But it's British!
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seeyalater |
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seeyalater Trackday Trickster
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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seeyalater Trackday Trickster
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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redeem ouzzer |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:46 - 29 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 14:51 - 29 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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They do feel rapid though, even though realistically they probably make 40bhp on a good day. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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seeyalater |
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seeyalater Trackday Trickster
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Posted: 16:18 - 29 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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well il take that on the chin as i deserve
yes was 45bhp but a handy guy had just tuned it to be super smooth, so that power and at a weight under 150kg plus back then i was lean and smaller so all in all power felt good, plus id not Ridden much else.
for the record id also say Ground if out and floor if indoors. |
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wilbur |
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wilbur Traffic Copper
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seeyalater Trackday Trickster
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wilbur Traffic Copper
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seeyalater Trackday Trickster
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wilbur Traffic Copper
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 78 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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