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Bhud
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 Posted: 14:50 - 21 Jan 2020  Post subject: |
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A few years ago, I tried out both (first a Mk 1 600, then a 2007/8 650, I think). EFI and whatever emissions stuff really made the 650 seem like a completely different bike - not just tamed but a completely different beast. Throttle response was very, very different. An aircooled 600 Bandit with wide bars and a throaty exhaust can be fun.  |
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seeyalater
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Bhud
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| Posted: 15:09 - 21 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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| Leearchertog wrote: | different how? the 650 is the only suzuki ive ridden, does ride well to me, beowulf can makes it sound nice, but did wonder why the drop in power over a 600. |
In lots of ways, but probably the most important is the feeling of total control via the right wrist.
It's sort of like playing a piano vs playing a high-quality softsynth piano preset via a MIDI keyboard. On the computer, the latency between depressing a key and hearing the sound is a matter of a few milliseconds. You cannot "hear" that wait, but it's there. Try as you might, the delay is too brief to be perceived. Your brain tells you it's instant. However, move over to a piano and play the same tune on that, and you feel that a sort of "padding" has been removed, and as a result it feels more natural and emotional to play. You also feel it easier to improvise.
Of secondary importance:
The softsynth recreates perhaps 4 to 8 harmonics to give you a piano sound. The piano creates countless harmonics, and however quiet those might be, you are likely to be able to distinguish the very best softsynth sound as a simulation distinct from the piano. The piano will also be tuned by hand, and will sound in tune. Whereas the softsynth will be perfectly in tune. These little signatures and markers of the respective sounds are enough to give information to the subconscious mind that something clinical is going on with the softsynth. The minor physical differences between the hammers and strings will produce slightly different harmonics and sympathetic vibrations up and down the scale on a piano. It's imperfect and irregular, like the natural world. A softsynth when/if it tries to reproduce these imperfections does so with an algorithm that tries to introduce randomised values at regular intervals. An improvement, but still, not quite there.
In short, the burble of carbs is different due to imprecise fuel metering, variations in air temperature and pressure, etc. and you harmonise with the bike in a different way from an EFI bike because your sensory feedback isn't just the speed at which you're travelling but a whole host of other things which you perceive but don't consciously "notice".
Lots of analogies and words, but at the end of the day, give it a try one day (on a good example) and see which you prefer. Many people prefer EFI, for lots of good reasons. However, there is something else going on, separate from the numbers and which can probably only be described subjectively, in the difference between carb'd and EFI'd bikes.
The Bandit 600 was far from a perfect bike though. It had a fun element but the weight seemed to be carried a bit high. Quality of fit and finish were another issue, I seem to remember. |
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seeyalater
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| Posted: 15:12 - 21 Jan 2020 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: | | Leearchertog wrote: | different how? the 650 is the only suzuki ive ridden, does ride well to me, beowulf can makes it sound nice, but did wonder why the drop in power over a 600. |
In lots of ways, but probably the most important is the feeling of total control via the right wrist.
It's sort of like playing a piano vs playing a high-quality softsynth piano preset via a MIDI keyboard. On the computer, the latency between depressing a key and hearing the sound is a matter of a few milliseconds. You cannot "hear" that wait, but it's there. Try as you might, the delay is too brief to be perceived. Your brain tells you it's instant. However, move over to a piano and play the same tune on that, and you feel that a sort of "padding" has been removed, and as a result it feels more natural and emotional to play. You also feel it easier to improvise.
Of secondary importance:
The softsynth recreates perhaps 4 to 8 harmonics to give you a piano sound. The piano creates countless harmonics, and however quiet those might be, you are likely to be able to distinguish the very best softsynth sound as a simulation distinct from the piano. The piano will also be tuned by hand, and will sound in tune. Whereas the softsynth will be perfectly in tune. These little signatures and markers of the respective sounds are enough to give information to the subconscious mind that something clinical is going on with the softsynth. The minor physical differences between the hammers and strings will produce slightly different harmonics and sympathetic vibrations up and down the scale on a piano. It's imperfect and irregular, like the natural world. A softsynth when/if it tries to reproduce these imperfections does so with an algorithm that tries to introduce randomised values at regular intervals. An improvement, but still, not quite there.
In short, the burble of carbs is different due to imprecise fuel metering, variations in air temperature and pressure, etc. and you harmonise with the bike in a different way from an EFI bike because your sensory feedback isn't just the speed at which you're travelling but a whole host of other things which you perceive but don't consciously "notice".
Lots of analogies and words, but at the end of the day, give it a try one day (on a good example) and see which you prefer. Many people prefer EFI, for lots of good reasons. However, there is something else going on, separate from the numbers and which can probably only be described subjectively, in the difference between carb'd and EFI'd bikes.
The Bandit 600 was far from a perfect bike though. It had a fun element but the weight seemed to be carried a bit high. Quality of fit and finish were another issue, I seem to remember. |
I see where your goin with that, but mines not EFI its a carb bike. not all 650 are EFI. which adds to the confusion |
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DJP
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Nobby the Bastard
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Posted: 21:58 - 25 Jan 2020  Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: | | Leearchertog wrote: | different how? the 650 is the only suzuki ive ridden, does ride well to me, beowulf can makes it sound nice, but did wonder why the drop in power over a 600. |
In lots of ways, but probably the most important is the feeling of total control via the right wrist.
It's sort of like playing a piano vs playing a high-quality softsynth piano preset via a MIDI keyboard. On the computer, the latency between depressing a key and hearing the sound is a matter of a few milliseconds. You cannot "hear" that wait, but it's there. Try as you might, the delay is too brief to be perceived. Your brain tells you it's instant. However, move over to a piano and play the same tune on that, and you feel that a sort of "padding" has been removed, and as a result it feels more natural and emotional to play. You also feel it easier to improvise.
Of secondary importance:
The softsynth recreates perhaps 4 to 8 harmonics to give you a piano sound. The piano creates countless harmonics, and however quiet those might be, you are likely to be able to distinguish the very best softsynth sound as a simulation distinct from the piano. The piano will also be tuned by hand, and will sound in tune. Whereas the softsynth will be perfectly in tune. These little signatures and markers of the respective sounds are enough to give information to the subconscious mind that something clinical is going on with the softsynth. The minor physical differences between the hammers and strings will produce slightly different harmonics and sympathetic vibrations up and down the scale on a piano. It's imperfect and irregular, like the natural world. A softsynth when/if it tries to reproduce these imperfections does so with an algorithm that tries to introduce randomised values at regular intervals. An improvement, but still, not quite there.
In short, the burble of carbs is different due to imprecise fuel metering, variations in air temperature and pressure, etc. and you harmonise with the bike in a different way from an EFI bike because your sensory feedback isn't just the speed at which you're travelling but a whole host of other things which you perceive but don't consciously "notice".
Lots of analogies and words, but at the end of the day, give it a try one day (on a good example) and see which you prefer. Many people prefer EFI, for lots of good reasons. However, there is something else going on, separate from the numbers and which can probably only be described subjectively, in the difference between carb'd and EFI'd bikes.
The Bandit 600 was far from a perfect bike though. It had a fun element but the weight seemed to be carried a bit high. Quality of fit and finish were another issue, I seem to remember. |
Teffers has a.sock account...
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Shaft
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 91 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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