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Suzuki Marauder GZ125 - 1998 vs 2006 vs 2012 models

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saxyct
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 23 Jan 2020    Post subject: Suzuki Marauder GZ125 - 1998 vs 2006 vs 2012 models Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I would like to buy a Marauder 125cc and, among the bikes on sale I found, there are some 1998 models and some newer ones, for example one from 2013 and one from 2008.
I could not find anywhere the technical differences between these models... Sometimes, for example, the company includes upgrades like the gear indicator or improvements to the brakes or the suspensions, etc.
Does anyone know what has been upgraded in the newer variants?

Thank you for your help
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 23 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 125 Marauder is a 'factory custom' cruiserified commuter. It has a daftly oversize back tyre for the look, that's hard to get fitment for, and is peculiarly un-grippy in any offering. Tough as old boot mechanics based on the old GS125 engine, that was in seriel production for long years, and cloned into Chinese production at the end.

B~U~T.. CONDITION IS ALL.. and you are looking at bikes that are old enough to have thier own driving licence, I would DGAS what small spec changes there may have been between years... at the age of ANY of them, those differences will be tiny compared to the differences in actual examples on offer that will most likely have had far more 'changes' to any standard specification made by former owners; whether that's a USB port for thier I-Player, or a rack for a top box, or a sissy bar for cruiser cred, who knows and who cares; underneath whether they have ever changed the fork oil, brake pads or tyres will be far more important, along with whether they have stripped spark-plug threads, rounded off magneto cover screws or fitted tassled hand grips without glue!

In short, why do you care what minor differences there may be between examples in the brochures? Far more significant are actual differences between actual real world examples offered for sale, you might actually go buy... where, stressing the point.. CONDITION IS ALL!!!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 23 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Suzuki Marauder GZ125 - 1998 vs 2006 vs 2012 models Reply with quote

saxyct wrote:
Hello everyone,

I would like to buy a Marauder 125cc and, among the bikes on sale I found, there are some 1998 models and some newer ones, for example one from 2013 and one from 2008.
I could not find anywhere the technical differences between these models... Sometimes, for example, the company includes upgrades like the gear indicator or improvements to the brakes or the suspensions, etc.
Does anyone know what has been upgraded in the newer variants?

Thank you for your help


You could just look at them and see what they have.
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saxyct
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 04 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply!
I have tried one and I think it would fit my riding style, therefore I think I will take it. However I have a big doubt: the motorbike seems in great condition and well-kept (model year 2012) however it is basically impossible to get in neutral... above all when the bike is not moving. Is that normal or perhaps typical of this bike? or I should be suspicious about the transmission health?

On a second topic, the seller told me that I will have to change the tyres as soon as possible, since the tyre sides are cracked due to the weather conditions (the bike is being kept outside). The tread depth is fine but he said the bike would not probably pass the MOT unless i change them due to the side cracks... what do you think?
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 04 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cracked tyres may pose a danger = MOT failure.

As for finding neutral.
Try coming to a stop in first gear, when you are at a standstill, try going into second gear and then drop into neutral .
That’s worked for me with many bikes over the years.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 04 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxyct wrote:
I have tried one and I think it would fit my riding style

Err, yeag, Oh-Kay.. you can have a 'style' to ride one of these
?! But meh; whatever floats your boat.
saxyct wrote:
However I have a big doubt: the motorbike seems in great condition and well-kept (model year 2012) however it is basically impossible to get in neutral...

Hmmmmm... Newbies struggle wth this on ANY bike, To be honest. Neutral is a half click between 1st and 2nd, and notoriousely hard to find, especially in cumpy boots, especially without much practice, and especially on 125's...
An oil change 'may' help.
I'm trying to recall if the mini-marauder has a solid shift lever, or like the Honda Rebel, to get the pegs 'forward' for that crucified riding position, it has a rod and rose linkage between the lever on the engine and the foot-pedal. These are notorious, and on little 125's rarely get any lubrication, (or other maintenance) and tend to go sloppy, making changes, let alone finding neutral harder than needs. I think though, its a solid lever on the marydaughter, so check, makle sure lever's not bent, replace the toe rubber and then spend a bit of time taking it off the splines and moving it around the shaft to find the most comfy angle, position, to work... when you are riding... not when stood next to the thing trying to hold it up and find neutral!
Otherwise, practice, practice, practice... and use the clutch, t6ill you are SURE you have it in 'N'.!!!
saxyct wrote:
or I should be suspicious about the transmission health?

I would be suspicioise of the transmission health regardless. The Chain and Sprockets are part of the transmission, and they are normally neglected until the chain falls off, then the bodge of knocking a few links out of the old chain is resorted to, rather than buyiong a new-one. Vhains get stretched and or over tioghtened, newbvies have a dire tendency to over shift, and be rather ham-footed about the deal, baching the pedal up and down the boc probably three times as often as they need, and bending or breaking the stuff insuide.... so yeah, I would be concerned about the transmission.... but not unduly!

saxyct wrote:
On a second topic, the seller told me that I will have to change the tyres as soon as possible, since the tyre sides are cracked due to the weather conditions (the bike is being kept outside). The tread depth is fine but he said the bike would not probably pass the MOT unless i change them due to the side cracks... what do you think?


The back tyre on the Maryderorder, from memory is a bit of a pig. Its a rare size and ISTR that the only 'better' tyre you could get on its size was a Metzler, that is in a rather hard compound, and never wears out... but equally don't grip the road, especially when wet, either! I also recall that the size, taken from larger models for 'the look' is also rather expensive... fronts by contrast are not 'so' much of a problem.... I would budget around £150 or so for a new pair of tyres and use that as haggle factor in discussions with owner when we mentioned money....

Personbally, I wouldn't go for a Merryorder, full-stop. It's just not a particularlu=y wonderful bike, for much more than barely adequete get to work transport. Mechanically better than many chinky built thing's, but, like that back tyre they have thier quirks.

IF that was the sum total of it; the neutral issue wouldn't likely bother me. A bit of service and apanner attension and a bit of practice would probably see it liveable with. The Tyres? Well, that's something that would make me walk away from any Moreorderer.... and like I say, they are not nice, hard to repolace and none too cheap.. but if you re set on one of these, and probably this particular example... what the heck... they are perished.. but even brand new ones aren't the best, If I got the sale proce down enough and had the cash in my pocket I might treat the thing to new boots on my way home... otherwise... will they pass an MOT or will plod give me grief, even new tyres aren't brilliant, and the things handle wierd anyway, It would be a judgement call as to how long the perishing things were left there... if they aren't too bad, and will pass an MOT the dang things could outlive ME! (I did say that they were rather ungrippy and long lasting didn't I!) Just ride it very bludy careful, especially in the wet, and dont lean it much! Even for a Crooozer!
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saxyct
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 04 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortunately the motorbike was owned by an "experienced" guy, not by a newbie like me XD and he is a car mechanic, so I guess he has been treating the bike quite well.
However when we were trying to shift it into neutral, he also tried to shift by hand while I was on the bike and he was not successful. Is that perhaps because the bike was standing still and not moving?
I read that it is recommended finding neutral while still riding rather than after having stopped. Or maybe rolling a bit the bike back and forth while findinf the neutral. Is that your experience as well?

With regard to my choice, that's gonna be just a temporary cheap bike to start with and learn, so that I can get used to heavier and longer bikes. After 1 year or so my intention is to move to a bigger custom like a Harley. That's the only reason why I am going for a Marauder. I heard the hardware is solid and the engine is reliable, so I should not expect sudden breakdowns if the bike is well-kept and well maintained...
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CorriganJ
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 04 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess finding neutral while moving means you know you're in it, likewise moving backwards and forwards. But my bike has a Neutral light so I just use that to know when I hit it. Otherwise yes, I imagine it could be hard to know when you're in neutral? I don't know what the advised thing is.

Also, it can be easy to miss neutral on many bikes. You won't know unless you ride it, and ride a well maintained model to compare it to. You could spend a bit more and buy one you know is serviced properly? They are not an expensive bike.

Having worked in a car "stealership" I think 9 times out of 10, you are better buying privately. You will save a ton, which can then be spent on maintaince if needed. The 1 time out of 10 its worth getting ripped off IMO is on your first bike, when learning how to ride the thing is tricky enough without having to deal with reliablity issues. Last thing you want as a learner rider is to be sitting at the lights struggling to find gears because of a bust gearbox while people accellerate into the back of you because they weren't paying attention.

Thats my opinion.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 05 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

CorriganJ wrote:
But my bike has a Neutral light so I just use that to know when I hit it

Neutral lamp are notoriously unreliable.
The bulb is generally on a constant 'live' feed, and is switched on the earth side, via copper tab on the selector drum that rotates to move the selector forks that shift the cogs. When the drum is lined up in the 'neutral' position, the copper tab touched a rivet in the engine casing to 'make' the circuit on the earth side and make the lamp come on...
Trouble is, that the engine oil collects all the metal particulates from the engine wearing out.. why you need change it from time to time... and those particulates conduct electricity, so the 'N' lamp can come on when the neutral drum 'doesn't' line up in the 'N' position, and electric flows through the metal swarf in the oil effectively short-circuiting the 'switch'
OR the oil collects insulating crap, like particulates of worn out clutch plates, that insulate the tang and the rivet, so the light doesn't come on when the contacts touch.
IE: the switch on the Neutral Light is rather flakey, and whether it works or not is pretty hit and miss, A-N-D its as good as telling you when you need to change the oil, as when you are in Neutral or not!
So don't rely on it... its a helpful indication you 'should' be out of gear for sure.. b-u-t...
Hence rocking back and forth and testing the bite point on the clutch, 'oldskool' stylee, as much as anything because riders don't trust, and for good reason, the neutral-lamp, as much as bike gearboxes are a 'bit' primitive in design, and neutral tends to be a bit tricky to find.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 05 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:

Neutral lamp are notoriously unreliable.


Since when, I've not had one fail in any jap or chinese bike I've owned made since the 1980's. I've not even ever heard anyone gripe about one failing let alone it being notorious.


OP don't buy the bike it sounds like a fucked pile of shit. Maybe its easy to sort but you don't know and clearly don't have the ability to judge.

If an alleged experienced rider and car mechanic (you believe that, i have an Eiffel Tower for sale), can't make it find neutral then its probably not an easy fix.

Find the best 125 to suit your budget rather than focussing on a style.
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CorriganJ
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 05 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
CorriganJ wrote:
But my bike has a Neutral light so I just use that to know when I hit it

Neutral lamp are notoriously unreliable.
The bulb is generally on a constant 'live' feed, and is switched on the earth side, via copper tab on the selector drum that rotates to move the selector forks that shift the cogs. When the drum is lined up in the 'neutral' position, the copper tab touched a rivet in the engine casing to 'make' the circuit on the earth side and make the lamp come on...
Trouble is, that the engine oil collects all the metal particulates from the engine wearing out.. why you need change it from time to time... and those particulates conduct electricity, so the 'N' lamp can come on when the neutral drum 'doesn't' line up in the 'N' position, and electric flows through the metal swarf in the oil effectively short-circuiting the 'switch'
OR the oil collects insulating crap, like particulates of worn out clutch plates, that insulate the tang and the rivet, so the light doesn't come on when the contacts touch.
IE: the switch on the Neutral Light is rather flakey, and whether it works or not is pretty hit and miss, A-N-D its as good as telling you when you need to change the oil, as when you are in Neutral or not!
So don't rely on it... its a helpful indication you 'should' be out of gear for sure.. b-u-t...
Hence rocking back and forth and testing the bite point on the clutch, 'oldskool' stylee, as much as anything because riders don't trust, and for good reason, the neutral-lamp, as much as bike gearboxes are a 'bit' primitive in design, and neutral tends to be a bit tricky to find.


Interesting.

Honestly, this is probably a bad habit (I am looking forward to taking lessons so I can learn the "correct" way to do things) but I just leave it in first when I'm stopped. I realise potentially that could be bad if something makes me dump the clutch suddenly, but I never thought much about it until this thread made me realise I hardly ever put my bike in N.

As soon as I'm back in the UK for longer than a week at the time I'm taking lessons to learn the "proper" way to do this riding shit.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 05 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

trusting the 'N' Lamp, and riding the clutch are porobably two seperate but notionally related topics... b-u-t....
The old-skool lore to always find neutral when stopped, be that at a T-Junct or roundie, or lights etc, DOES have some legacy that comes down via the same means as the Hendon shuffle via the BMF.

In the late '70's there was little or no formal bike training like there ws for cars. When the 1982 125cc learner-laws came in, there had been a lengthy period of 'consultation' in which the 'consultants' to HMGov't, were significantly plod and pro training... only there weren't none!
Resultant legislation steam-rollered through Parliament by the 'new' thatcher regime, took a blunder-buss approach, and slated virtually 'every' suggestion that had been made, on the grounds that bikers were leather clad knuckle draggers not to be encouraged, except to get cars and mortgages and be good little consumers, and such a minority that they could get away with legislating us out of existence... Hence the Learner-Legal laws that imposed not just a 125cc capacity limit, but also a 12bhp power cap, when most of the organisations consulted suggested one or other, and many were recommending 'something' in the order of a 20bhp 250, But ALl endorsed the non existent training.. so we got the Part-One Test, which remains an anomaly as the only road vehicle 'test' deligated to non DSA ratified personnel to conduct.... idea was that it made 'some' sort of training 'sort' of mandatory, if you wanted a bike licence, and was mostly sub-contracted to existing BMF 'voluntary' training schemes, usually staffed by volunteer instructors of the BMF, usually pulled from Plod cycle cops......

Ever ridden an old air-cooled BMW or Moto-Guzzi?

Err, yeah, Favourites of the BMF and plod of old, they have a car type transmission, bolted on the back of the engine car style, with a car type diaphragm clutch in the middle.... great on a car, when the clutch is disengaged with a boot, you can put all your leg muscle on... NOT so wonderful on a bike, when you have to try release the thing with your hand!

Holding 'in' an old Beemer or Guzzi clutch is a herculean task! Believe me.. there's one outside! Its something you really only want to do once, and it is NOT something you want to sit holding at a junction for any length of time.... hence the 'best practice' as expounded by these BMF types, for forty years, is to get the thing in 'N' and leave it there till you need it to move.

Plenty of argument has been offered about dumped clutches is youy sit it out in gear, if say you were hit up the chuff, or knocked on the arm by a woman pushing a pram or shopping trolley.... which may have some validity, but mostly its down to how heavy them dang plod bike clutches were!

And it IS still good practice to sit it out in 'N' rather than stressing clutch cable or wearing the plates.. but... it IS significantly a bit of legacy from how heavy old plod bike clutches were!

And like the Cardington clog dance.... a display of dexterity to show you CAN find neutral.... not an essy thing on a Guzzi believe me there too!

B~U~T regardless of the legacy, it IS still best practice to use Neutral... for many reasons, both safety and mechanical sympathy... WHERE YOU CAN... which probably is the tricky bit.....

Actually had this debate with an oldskool BMF/Plod biker, and a young whipper snapper, probably in hie 40;s who came up via DAS... in which 'my' solution of slow riding and track standing to avoid the issue as much as possible, was derided as a cop out and FAR from 'best practice'... b-u-t...

There's a 'Neutral' in the box, its there to be used, so learn to use it, and use it, where most advantageouse, both to reduce fatigue in the left hand and improve stationary safety.... using the clutch as a substitute IS another cop-out, and doesn't really help any except endorse 'lazy' riding habits.....
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kolu
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 05 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

saxyct wrote:
however it is basically impossible to get in neutral... above all when the bike is not moving. Is that normal or perhaps typical of this bike?


I had the same issue with my second hand bike as I bought it. Funny it was fine when cold and got gradually worse as it warmed-up. Also, with engine cold it was easy to get into N from 1. And then I noticed clutch drag.
New clutch plates sorted that easily, cost around £80 (together with gasket and new oil and filter), took me about two hours to do with 0 experience.

Just an idea, your might be having different issue with similar symptoms.
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saxyct
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 13 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here I am after a couple of months, delay due to the Corona...
The guy held the bike for me after paying a deposit, so it should still be fine.

One thing made me go a bit hesitant is the big gap between the EU approval date (which I thought would correspond to the bike manifacturing year) and the first-registration date.
As far as I know, the time interval between these two events can range form a couple of months to a year or so. For this bike, the approval documents have been made in 2006 in Spain, and the first registration plate was assigned in 2013.

The fact that the approval was released in Spain is probably due to the fact that Suzuki moved its manifacturing plants to Spain after the initial models, so it should not sound suspicious.
However, why would it be first-registered many years after its approval date?

A colleague of mine told me that the approval date does not always correspond to the production year of the bike itself, but it's rather related to the EU approval of the bike model. Since the Marauder didn't get substantial updates after its initial 2006 model (only minor or aestethic features which should not require a new approval), he believes the first registration is likely to correspond to the effective production year.

What do you guys think?
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terrytibbs
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 13 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
moto guzzi

.


Meanwhile at Teflon Mike's house

[img]https://i.ibb.co/sjGkjLP/loungin.jpg[/img]
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