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When Mexican beer attacks! Corona Virus

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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
panrider_uk wrote:
You've completely ignored population size there.

Of course a country with a larger population is likely to have more cases!

Tested positive with Covid-19 doesn't mean died of it just that they had it when they died of one of the many "underlying issues"

It irritates me that all these deaths are being attributed to Covid-19 when a large number of them are due to other causes.


Cause of death for something like, I dunno, HIV or Ebola is usually not the virus itself but the secondary illness that it engenders. It's still the result of the virus. Take someone with a compromised immune system that died of pneumonia because they'd contracted COVID. They would be alive and well if they hadn't so the underlying cause of death is COVID, not the pneumonia and that's what a doctor will put on the death certificate.
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Riejufixing
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Joined: 24 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
panrider_uk wrote:
It irritates me that all these deaths are being attributed to Covid-19 when a large number of them are due to other causes.

It depends on who's attributing the deaths. I hope no-one suggests that doctors, for instance, lie on death certificates. They will put what they consider caused the death, and if the cause of death is a result of contracting "coronavirus", they will quite justifiably put it.

Simplify by example (I paraphrase):

a) Had coronavirus, died of pneumonia

- On certificate: "Death from pneumonia caused by coronavirus".

b) Had coronavirus, no symptoms hit by bus when crossing road.

- On certificate: "Death by bus".



Edit: Oops. Sort-of-ninja'd.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
I've just provided you with the figures and the link. You're wrong. Belgium for one, has almost twice the deaths per million than we do. Spain and Italy also have more.

C'mon, be reasonable, you're actually expecting him to bother looking at the facts? Laughing
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:

How is this a flame: https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=4702766#4702766


What, my post of you screenshotting my Twitter activity for everyone to see? The one you later doxxed to show my Twitter account info in full?

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=103459


No, I posted 'bit abusive', which you rated as a flame. I don't see how you can cry about the karma system when that is just one of many examples of your incorrect use of the system.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
One wonders how it's possible to dox someone by pointing out their very public statements on a forum that is designed to take those statements to the widest audience possible.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
One wonders how it's possible to dox someone by pointing out their very public statements on a forum that is designed to take those statements to the widest audience possible.

It's all because of how tiny he is.
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cdlxxvi
Nearly there...



Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
Rambling about population size


Having to explain it makes me feel like I'm my mum (although she taught year 2 and above, so maybe never had quite the same experience).

Anyway: the size of the population doesn't matter. It's as if it was a fire: how much will burn down depends on how effective is the firefighting, not how big is the building. If its effectiveness allows to contain the fire at 100sqft, 100sqft will be lost in a 2 bed semi and 100sqft will be lost in Buckingham Palace.

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart
Quote:
Adjusting for population
Unusually for cross-national data, adjusting for population isn’t strictly necessary when analysing the speed at which a virus spreads. Viruses don’t respect borders, and the rate at which they spread is not affected by the overall population of the affected country.

Population matters least in the early stages of an epidemic because cases are likely to be highly concentrated in particular regions like Hubei or Lombardy. Later, though, viewing the values per million people gives a sense of the pandemic’s relative strain on countries’ resources. Switching to the “per million” view won’t alter the shape of each country’s curve, but will reorder them relative to one another.

Adjusted for population, small countries with broad definitions for what cases or deaths to include in their data will look particularly badly affected, while epidemics concentrated in parts of a very populous country look surprisingly small. Try changing this setting while comparing Belgium to the US or China.


One more food for thought: you managed to find 2* countries that have deaths/population worse than UK.
What about the other 192?

*Apples for apples, so we exclude Belgium.
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Lord Percy
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:


If you think you can get away with your silly attempt to discredit the current government, then plead utter, *UTTER* ignorance, then try to get back by awarding negative karma, you are very much mistaken.


Utter ignorance about what? You're just trying to look smart here without actually making any relevant point whatsoever. It amounts to something roughly similar to "nerr nerr I know something you don't know", grow up ffs Laughing /

As it stands, all I can assume is that you think the world-topping UK death toll due to corona virus is so high because "reasons".

Come on.

What is it about the current death toll that you're trying to explain away? Do you think it's normal? It's okay? It was unavoidable?

Frankly I think it's a mixture of sad and funny that so many people are trying to find excuses for the UK being so much worse affected. "Oh they would have died anyway." "Oh the UK has more fat people." "Oh the UK had more Chinese tourists." "Oh the borders are still open so its the open border's fault."

Excuses, excuses, excuses, because heaven doth forfend our Tory lords and masters from ever doing anything wrong Rolling Eyes

Here it is in capitals for the bootlickers: WORST DEATH TOLL IN EUROPE. Hope that helps.
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bhinso
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
Anyway: the size of the population doesn't matter. It's as if it was a fire: how much will burn down depends on how effective is the firefighting, not how big is the building. If its effectiveness allows to contain the fire at 100sqft, 100sqft will be lost in a 2 bed semi and 100sqft will be lost in Buckingham Palace.


I was wrong! I predicted that glans 476 or Val would be back to sing about the numbers, but I was on the wrong thread Sad there's a lot of threads on this so it's easy to get confused.

Of course the size of the population matters! The population of Vatican City (yes it's a country) is 825. Guess what number the amount of deaths in that country can't exceed?

The only surprising statistic is why China's figure is so low, but then I suspect (no sauce to back me up) that it might be telling porkie pies.
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bhinso
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
When looking at deaths, population size matters, as does population density.

Take France for example, its population is similar to ours, but spread over something like 3 times the area. When all this begun, I therefore expected France to have a lower death toll than us.

In short, I don't think we should be going back begging to rejoin the EU just because some countries are faring better than us. Thumbs Up
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Hawkeye1250FA
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Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
What a load of bollocks and willy waving in this thread.

🤣🤣🤣

Death rates (in this context of "who has the best / worst") definitely are affected by population and density. The Vatican example hits the nail on the head.

There are times when dealing with statistics that it's irrelevant. This isn't one of those times.

1000 people dying in a country with population 1million
Is BETTER than
1000 people dying in a country with population 3000


Also

1000 people dying in a country with population 1million spread over 400km

Is WORSE than

1000 people dying in a country with population 1million spread
Over 100km



It's all about context and what you want to "get" from the comparison.

You can literally spin it either way depending on what your agenda is.

👍
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chickenstrip
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Joined: 06 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:


Frankly I think it's a mixture of sad and funny that so many people are trying to find excuses for the UK being so much worse affected. "Oh they would have died anyway." "Oh the UK has more fat people." "Oh the UK had more Chinese tourists." "Oh the borders are still open so its the open border's fault."

Excuses, excuses, excuses, because heaven doth forfend our Tory lords and masters from ever doing anything wrong Rolling Eyes

Here it is in capitals for the bootlickers: WORST DEATH TOLL IN EUROPE. Hope that helps.


I don't deny that mistakes were probably made. But what do you want me to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Oh yeah, you're going to rage on FB. Well that should sort everything out Thumbs Up
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Lord Percy
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 06 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

I don't deny that mistakes were probably made. But what do you want me to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Oh yeah, you're going to rage on FB. Well that should sort everything out Thumbs Up


Well it's not for the likes of you or I to do anything directly, since we're the little people with zero power to pull the necessary strings, but to shrug your shoulders and say you're utterly powerless is to say that information and democracy have no power in this country. Arguably, such a statement is sadly true in a lot of ways, but us peasants still need to inform ourselves and others in any way they can. Indeed that's the only way solutions can ever be found. In an ideal democracy, anyway.
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chickenstrip
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Joined: 06 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
us peasants still need to inform ourselves and others in any way they can. Indeed that's the only way solutions can ever be found. In an ideal democracy, anyway.


Confused
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's confusing about that?
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chickenstrip
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Joined: 06 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, so I watch the news, I'm informed. How does that lead to solutions? By what mechanism? It's like I said; you can vote in a GE. That's what we have in a democracy. I can't see the point in me getting all worked up about it meanwhile.

Or are you looking for a more serious revenge?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
Cheeeina



This is clearly designed to be derogatory and is racist, thus flame.
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rebel wrote:
UK survivability is currently 30th out of 33 in the European Corona Cup.
Possibly connected with our fondness for annual flu shots and a deeply wasteful and monolithic healthcare system..


You do know that flu and coronavirus are completely different and immunity to one does fuck all where the other is concerned?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 07 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has anyone pointed out: UK has a high death toll 'cos of all these bloomin' immgrants! Etheniks is 4 times more likely to catch the Bad Aids and all that.
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