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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:28 - 22 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: |
Okay, so say things need to change quicker. Given the current computational power that would imply that things need to simplify, become more predictable. At current year that necessitates excising more "Human" from the system |
Weird isn't it? You spend all your life thinking we're trying to come up with a system to make things better for humans, only to find out the system itself is the whole focus and the end goal is to make humans redundant so the system can operate efficiently. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:46 - 22 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | I'll tell you one thing.
If the decision was left up to an AI and raw computation. Motorbikes would be banned immediately. |
They are man-and-machine. A real step up from the basic idea of a horse and its rider. Man and the machine become one. They have a lot to do with transhuman technologies.
I don't worry about bikes, though. We'll get to ride them. However, I think the next generation needs to think bigger, and look at the next iteration of the man-and-machine idea a bit closer. Could a horse rider of the 19th century imagine what it would be like to ride an R1 flat out? It's hard to say. Being jacked into something which gives you the experience of accessing internet data with 6G thanks to a neural implant - I can't even imagine what that would be like.
A lot of what people are so attached to will have to disappear, before this sort of stuff is widely embraced by all. That means private transport, private houses, travelling here and there, etc. If I were a young person today, and I was thinking about motorbikes, I would probably be pretty miserable, thinking, how could I afford that doing a menial job? If, on the other hand, I just got myself an Oculus Quest, and the SDKs, I could start out with Roblox and end up actually making a space ship I could fly... That's the future. A lot to look forward towards. |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:10 - 22 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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At the moment, you may be right.
However, I've seen some of these games on Oculus Quest, and I've been blown away. Some of them are REALLY good. Fighter plane simulations, an RPG, etc. It's still early days and big money is going into these, and developing them apace.
I think the frame of reference, for comparison, may be important. It may never be possible to encapsulate the feeling of riding a bike, using synthetic sensory input devices. I'm not sure. However, it will definitely be possible to activate areas of the brain that offer the same dopamine "hit" as riding one. People right now, like us, understand the little effects of swings in brain chemistry caused by using social media, using forums, etc. Everyone understands that. However, fewer and fewer people will understand or experience the total "zoom out" effect of something which has real effects on dopamine... It will be cycling, the gym, or the immersive reality. That's speculation, on my part. But some pleasures will simply have no further frame of reference and, as such, won't be missed by people in the future. |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:55 - 22 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: | Somewhere between now and that gaming future there has to be a moment where a generation says, “Yes, we will trade real-world stimuli for a fantasy world.” No matter how immersive, what would be their motivation? |
It will be a generation that has never really known real world experiences. We're well on the way. You can't miss what you never had. Who knows, maybe it'll even work out for them. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:57 - 22 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | I'll tell you one thing.
If the decision was left up to an AI and raw computation. Motorbikes would be banned immediately. |
I rather think the days of motorcycles are numbered anyway. I reckon it will be health and safety considerations that end them. The public is becoming ever more intolerant of risk. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:10 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Islander wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
It will be a generation that has never really known real world experiences. We're well on the way. You can't miss what you never had. Who knows, maybe it'll even work out for them. |
Now that's a worrying thought. |
Not necessarily. Every generation dislikes how the world changes around them as they get older, becomes harder to adapt, but it's not like everything changes overnight.
As I said, future generations won't know what they're missing out on, so it won't seem bad to them. They'll have new things to occupy them. Of course, this is as long as they don't lose any absolute essentials, but we seem currently to be in a state of not being sure what those are (not me, of course ). Shelter, food, warmth, video games? What's missing from that list? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:17 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: |
Some sort of graft which facilitates them. The proposal seems to be that everyone withdraws from the world. I’m just asking how that happens and how they survive. |
Not my generation, not my problem ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 01:10 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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chickenstrip wrote: |
Not necessarily. Every generation dislikes how the world changes around them as they get older, becomes harder to adapt, but it's not like everything changes overnight.
As I said, future generations won't know what they're missing out on, so it won't seem bad to them. They'll have new things to occupy them. Of course, this is as long as they don't lose any absolute essentials, but we seem currently to be in a state of not being sure what those are (not me, of course ). Shelter, food, warmth, video games? What's missing from that list? |
I don't think the world is really changing much at all physically compared to changes of the past. The most significant change I see compared to the past is that because of demographics the country is very boomer and gen-x centric, and if you aren't in that generation then governments don't really have any interest in you. This is very different to the past. It has profound impacts too. Do you make houses affordable or keep the prices high? You can only really pick one.
Tang ping is a nice example of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 01:14 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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I'm probably more tech savvy and computer literate than 90% of the people at my work. Most of whom, I'd sad to say, are considerably younger than me.
I'm also the only one who doesn't have a smart phone... ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Posted: 01:16 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Bhud wrote: | At the moment, you may be right.
However, I've seen some of these games on Oculus Quest, and I've been blown away. Some of them are REALLY good. Fighter plane simulations, an RPG, etc. It's still early days and big money is going into these, and developing them apace.
I think the frame of reference, for comparison, may be important. It may never be possible to encapsulate the feeling of riding a bike, using synthetic sensory input devices. I'm not sure. However, it will definitely be possible to activate areas of the brain that offer the same dopamine "hit" as riding one. People right now, like us, understand the little effects of swings in brain chemistry caused by using social media, using forums, etc. Everyone understands that. However, fewer and fewer people will understand or experience the total "zoom out" effect of something which has real effects on dopamine... It will be cycling, the gym, or the immersive reality. That's speculation, on my part. But some pleasures will simply have no further frame of reference and, as such, won't be missed by people in the future. |
I used to think they weren't that good then I tried some rollercoaster game with guns. Everyone thought it was pretty funny when I could barely stand up while on the "rollercoaster" and trying to shoot the targets.
... but they quit seconds in or wanted a chair to sit on when play the game themselves
Realism: There's no smell, no freshness, no warm breeze. But for just audio/visual adrenaline it's 8/10 for realism. Expect a headache too btw. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 01:50 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Humans have foot in two worlds: the realm of the real and the realm of symbols. The Bruce Willis film Surrogates is a cheesy but interesting take on bridging the two. Gamer with Gerard Butler is more likely though ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:56 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Some interesting points have been raised about human productive output.
Everyone depends on productivity. Someone has to produce something. This takes effort and energy.
I think the easiest way to roughly work out how the interim steps will be accomplished is to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Let's plot a couple of coordinates on an imaginary scalar: 1) basic transhumanist metaverse/digital existence (the building blocks and rudimentary forms of this tech are already in existence); 2) much higher goal postulated by futurists, e.g. AI singularity (much more controversial - some people don't think it's going to happen, rudimentary forms of the tech aren't here yet but are only theoretical, etc.)
Here's my idea: the demands of objective (1) pose a challenge uniquely suited to America's hegemonic domination of the world by force.
Need: new resources e.g. rare earths, which are located in central Asia, China, Africa, South America and not here.
Development: smart people to develop tech (this is what I think is going to be the easiest bit - ideas stage; high level software, gaming, digital products, etc.)
Production: need smart people and slave-like oppressive social structure to efficiently produce high tech stuff.
Problem: can't get all these things here.
How to get: you have to use strategic means to make other people dig them out of the ground, and then you take them out of the hands of those people and use them here. Taiwan is responsible for roughly 60% of the world's semiconductor production. Whoever controls Taiwan has a huge advantage. Therefore, and this is just a short-term play as an example, you point to the west and attack to the east. It's swings and balances. Basic example: China wants Taiwan, and gets Russia on-side. Builds massive army and arsenal. West puts on a theatre show in Ukraine (just to keep Russia busy with 2 fronts, so that things don't get out of hand elsewhere). Conflict happens "accidentally" in South China Sea (and perhaps also in Ukraine). Ukrainians try to fight hard but we've set them up to lose and won't commit for them as the object is Taiwan. US-led conflict over Taiwan. US forces lose as it's a staged, contained, conventional conflict (i.e. that's the plan). Taiwan threatens to destroy its semiconductor output. China makes assurances to Taiwan (as with Hong Kong) and begins to administer Taiwan even more efficiently (like HK). Peace deal is quickly signed. The CCP gets a chance to look benevolent, and also gets a "win" under its belt. China's happy because it got Taiwan. Russia's happy because it got Ukraine. China can make Taiwan make more stuff. Russia can make Ukraine make more energy to sell to Europe. We start getting cheaper and cheaper electronic goods in exchange for the money we print (China takes our money because it feels threatened and/or feels a desperate need to expand, or build up its military)
That's just a sort of model I have in mind for how we might end up getting what we need to make objective (1) happen, harnessing others' mind power, actual mineral resources, and basic human drives (e.g. fear of war) to get stuff made and delivered to us without actual voluntary productivity. It's possible this could all go wrong and this model could break, in which case we're back in the industrial age again. I may be wrong about the specifics of the interim steps, but as long as this sort of theatre can be played out without getting too serious, it will create enough activity for people in the relevant zones to produce stuff and swap it for our money. Could be apples, oranges, bread or electric vehicle batteries. It's not nice but it's just a stopgap until we get to objective (2) and don't actually need the organic intelligences any more |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:40 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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The world changes quickly. In the Regan era towards the end of the Cold War one could be forgiven for thinking the American Way would trump everyone. Now look at them
Anyhoo, what are you going to do with the large swathes of people who won't sign up to the new system? Go to war?!
Dostoevsky, Notes from the Underground wrote: | Now I ask you: what can be expected of man since he is a being endowed with strange qualities?
Shower upon him every earthly blessing, drown him in a sea of happiness, so that nothing but bubbles of bliss can be seen on the surface; give him economic prosperity, such that he should have nothing else to do but sleep, eat cakes and busy himself with the continuation of his species, and even then out of sheer ingratitude, sheer spite, man would play you some nasty trick. He would even risk his cakes and would deliberately desire the most fatal rubbish, the most uneconomical absurdity, simply to introduce into all this positive good sense his fatal fantastic element.
It is just his fantastic dreams, his vulgar folly that he will desire to retain, simply in order to prove to himself - as though that were so necessary - that men still are men and not the keys of a piano, which the laws of nature threaten to control so completely that soon one will be able to desire nothing but by the calendar.
And that is not all: even if man really were nothing but a piano-key, even if this were proved to him by natural science and mathematics, even then he would not become reasonable, but would purposely do something perverse out of simple ingratitude, simply to gain his point.
And if he does not find means he will contrive destruction and chaos, will contrive sufferings of all sorts, only to gain his point! He will launch a curse upon the world, and as only man can curse (it is his privilege, the primary distinction between him and other animals), may be by his curse alone he will attain his object - that is, convince himself that he is a man and not a piano-key!
If you say that all this, too, can be calculated and tabulated - chaos and darkness and curses, so that the mere possibility of calculating it all beforehand would stop it all, and reason would reassert itself, then man would purposely go mad in order to be rid of reason and gain his point!
I believe in it, I answer for it, for the whole work of man really seems to consist in nothing but proving to himself every minute that he is a man and not a piano-key! It may be at the cost of his skin, it may be by cannibalism! And this being so, can one help being tempted to rejoice that it has not yet come off, and that desire still depends on something we don't know? |
____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:19 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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They'll want it - no brutality required.
It's like the wristwatch, the smartphone, or even a vaccine... Most people will see how it's better to be a part of it than be left behind and left out. Nobody is actually hardcore enough against this new world - richer, safer and healthier than ever before - to hide out in a disused bunker and stock up on tins of baked beans. It's all about convenience, hygiene, removing pointless jobs and pointless chores and pointless hardships. It's progress. Remember the local shops and grocers? The supermarkets took over because they're better, even if they're ugly. More convenient, cheaper, more choice, etc. When you go to the supermarket, you see the self-service checkouts there. That's how it's going. The young don't want fast food jobs, the middle-aged want to work from home, etc. It's just the direction it's going.
Just mentioning the procurement of resources side of things because things will get cheaper in real terms, but there will be a bit of mystery as to how it gets there. How did the drone get your groceries to your door? Why did xyz country accept our currency, etc. It's a little awkward to say, but there's no such thing as real (I mean, sincere) war any more. Not in the age of nukes and biological weapons. Putin is likely one of the top 5 richest people on earth. He is smart, not attached to any arbitrary notions. Most leaders are. Deals will be struck - Russia gets this or that, he will get to look good, we get cheap resources, etc. And some people will die, unfortunately, in a small-scale battle (if there even is one). But this is just an interim stage en route to the elimination of all human suffering. It's how we will get what we need without actually making stuff. |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 21:58 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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This is sounding more and more like the rantings of a James Bond villian.
Bhud, people aren't like that. Speaking as someone who has neither a digital watch or a smartphone.
What you are selling isn't what will make people happy. It will make them discontented in the long run and they will subvert the system just to be difficult.
Build a system to control people, they will break it. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:13 - 23 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: |
What you are selling isn't what will make people happy. It will make them discontented in the long run |
More and more I get the feeling they'll buy into it anyway and find out when it's too late. In fact judging by the rates of depression we have, they already are buying into it. That's why I said "not my generation, not my problem". I've given up on them. They want to throw out everything we have without wondering why we have it. Sure, things need to change as time goes on, but the wholesale, blind rush for change we have now is just daft. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 2 years, 85 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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