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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

I've asked about motorcycle trailers here in the past and came across this image the other day.
Is it legal to tow a motorcycle on the UK highway this way? Just curious that's all.
(Obviously to save wear you could remove the chain and place a rear wheel on that's more worn until you arrive at the destination)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49463246126_b0611daa61_b.jpgLinking Purposes by Craig David, on Flickr
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doggone
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pic seems to be from here

I can't see a problem other than rear tyre wear issue which would be less than riding it I guess.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason I saw that photo and started humming the Dr.Pepper tune...
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is legal, I have a similar unit except mine is a lot lower to the ground, a trailer board has to be used across the rear of the bike to comply with lighting regs.
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G
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

No, it is not legal.
If you put a small dolly under the rear wheel it would be, providing the nose weight of the towing vehicle was rated for - the one in the picture will be.

The other way to make it legal would be to link the rear wheel of the bike to the towing vehicle's brakes.

A trailer under 750kg does not need to be braked.
Over 750kg you need brakes which apply when the vehicle brakes are used.

However any motorvehicle being towed must also be braked on all wheels touching the ground regardless of weight. The exception is if you're taking it 'to a place of safety' (a broken down car or bike, say).

A dolly under the rear wheel then classifies it as towing a trailer with a load vs towing a motorvehicle.
As I understand it, it doesn't matter if it's a road legal motorvehicle.

Whether it would still count if you took the engine out is another matter.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

G wrote:
The other way to make it legal would be to link the rear wheel of the bike to the towing vehicle's brakes.


Does it actually have to be linked, or is passive braking allowed? For example a weighted lever or compression brake? I have in mind a simple weighted lever attached to the rear brake pedal which swings forward when the vehicle slows, applying the rear brake. The only issue I can see is modulating it so that it doesn't just lock up the rear wheel.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think G is right.
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G
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
I do not think G is right.

Let me google that for you.

Quote:
Trailer has no brakes (Unbraked Trailer)

Maximum 750kg gross trailer weight or half the towing vehicle's kerb weight - whichever is less.

Trailer has brakes (Braked Trailer)

Maximum 3500kg gross trailer weight.


This is the bit that matters, actually:
Quote:
Trailers having a maximum laden weight not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly and efficiently. This means that the braking systems of small ‘microcars’ (under 750kg in weight) must still operate, even when the vehicle is being towed. Unless the vehicle is broken down, when C&U makes special provision.


This description is targeted at cars of course, but should still apply to bikes.
Quote:

Does it actually have to be linked, or is passive braking allowed? For example a weighted lever or compression brake? I have in mind a simple weighted lever attached to the rear brake pedal which swings forward when the vehicle slows, applying the rear brake. The only issue I can see is modulating it so that it doesn't just lock up the rear wheel

Some car systems use a wireless electronic system to apply the brakes. Your system may not be "correctly and efficiently", but also probably very unlikely to get stopped. Someone I know asked a police officer if they knew the laws before they used an A-Frame to tow a car a considerable distance - the police officer was the one who was educated about the laws in question. That doesn't mean others don't know the laws, but this person I know didn't have any trouble on that trip at least.
To me seems like it'd be much better to make a small dolly to lift the rear wheel off the ground - you don't flatted out the rear bike tyre and it's now on a trailer that doesn't have braked wheels.


Incidentally, a land rover possibly has a high enough nose weight to take a bike on it's tow hitch completely - you can get carries for these, but they're often used illegally on car with 50kg nose weights for 100kg enduro mx bikes.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:

Is it legal to tow a motorcycle on the UK highway this way?


I don't know about legality in the UK. The other issue is gearbox lubrication.
Without the engine and oil pump running, you might not have sufficient
lubrication for the transmission.

Quote:
(Obviously to save wear you could remove the chain)


That would solve the lubrication issue.
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Blah blah
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Confusion wrote:

Quote:
(Obviously to save wear you could remove the chain)


That would solve the lubrication issue.


And would mean that the vehicle had 'broken down' as well, solving the braking problem...
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Stalk
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably find that the moving parts of the engine are pressure lubricated, and that the gearbox is oil bath and splash lubricated. So no problem
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doggone
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect lifting the front wheel the bike becomes effectively an unbraked trailer weighing under 750kg and that's OK.
If you are towing a vehicle the brakes are supposed to operate by some mean but it's not towing exactly is it?

In any case a fair bet that the average policeman won't have seen such a thing before and would rather go for a doughnut than look it up.
You might be pushing it towing a Goldwing behind a Fiat 500 though.
However the example shown the heavy landrover will barely be able to tell it's on the back. It can legally tow up to 3.5 tons but should have overrun brakes above 750kg.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 30 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Confusion wrote:


I don't know...


You got that right. Motorbike gearboxes are splash-lubed.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 31 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:


You got that right. Motorbike gearboxes are splash-lubed.


They are, but, the oil may be sitting in the sump when
the engine isn't running.

OTOH, lifting the front wheel might tip enough oil
back into the gearbox to keep it lubed.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 06:44 - 31 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Confusion wrote:
Pete. wrote:


You got that right. Motorbike gearboxes are splash-lubed.


They are, but, the oil may be sitting in the sump when
the engine isn't running.


Splash-fed from the gearbox layshaft, and even if it wasn't there's no load on the gears except what it takes to idle them.

It's just not an issue.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:20 - 31 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of interesting comments. I'm not gonna do it - just wondered about the legality because I've never seen it done before.
Image was taken from CCM Mad on FB - the poster, Gary Wigston, is on both groups.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 31 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Reply with quote

Blah blah wrote:

And would mean that the vehicle had 'broken down' as well, solving the braking problem...

Which would be fine if taking it from a trail to somewhere that sold chains, say - but unlikely to work in court if they find you're driving to the trail like that from home.

doggone wrote:
I suspect lifting the front wheel the bike becomes effectively an unbraked trailer weighing under 750kg and that's OK.

The rear wheel still has a brake.
Possibly removing the rear brake would make it okay - but I suspect that's questionable at best.
However yes, quite likely the police wouldn't know - you regularly see a car transporter with two cars pulling a dolly as well - this is pretty obviously not a broken down car and so illegal, but regularly see police ignoring this too.
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