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Reliable Supermoto?

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Boxing
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 14 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reliable Supermoto? Reply with quote
Hi all, after all this 'Rona lockdown I'm hoping to buy a supermoto, it'll probably be more spring / summer 2021.

Don't really want a DRZ 400, I know they're very reliable, but they barely have the power to wheelie other than second clutch ups.

I was looking at WR 426's they seem powerful enough and tick the right boxes. But need piston rings changing every 600 miles.

Are there any other supermotos out there that are powerful but lower maintenance?

I have a car for commuting so I won't be doing drastic mileage on a bike, but 600 miles is a month of weekend use for me. Each ride I do approximately 50 miles hooning around my local country lanes.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hear that the Husky 701 SM is a bit of a giggle.

Whether it is better than the KTM version is another question.
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garth
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PostPosted: 06:50 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Budget?

Sm610ie if a 701 is out of reach
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 08:05 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
The kind people at the Kawasaki/Ducati dealers I use lent me a 1200 Hypermotard for a day last year.
Very impressed Shocked big strong and fast Smile .
Pulling a wheelie in third without using the clutch was not an issue.

If you gave it a big handful of throttle, you were somewhere else VERY quickly.
I decided to keep my money in my pocket because I knew I’d become addicted and end up with no license Laughing
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drzsta
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
690 SMC-R

Had mine for 6 years now, don't think i'll ever part with it and its just as quick as the newer twin spark versions à la 701 etc.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
garth wrote:
Budget?

Sm610ie if a 701 is out of reach


About £4-£5K.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about reliability on KTM's the newer ones especially.

The Husqvarna's are nice bikes but quite rare and with the company being sold a couple years ago I presume parts will be obsolete on a lot of the older bikes.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would have suggested the drz400 with some choice mods.. wouldn't be much else I'd consider.
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P.
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boxing wrote:
The Husqvarna's are nice bikes but quite rare and with the company being sold a couple years ago I presume parts will be obsolete on a lot of the older bikes.


You wont have an issue with parts on a 701. It is a KTM underneath to a degree.

690 SMC, oof. Yes please.

The only real reliable one is the DRZ400, but its not a supermoto, more chill than some hooligan machines.

Could always go KTM 300 EXC with RS125 wheels if you want cast wheels, otherwise talon/excel combo as usual.

It'll be a fun bike. Laughing
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garth
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:
I would have suggested the drz400 with some choice mods.. wouldn't be much else I'd consider.


Sort of why I suggested the 610. It's the same weight, more power, wide ratio six speed box, screw and locknut tappets and long service intervals.
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drzsta
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj5m6rMmWbk

mine is a 2012, no issues. Rocker arms were a weakness but I check them when doing the valves anyway.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
garth wrote:

Sort of why I suggested the 610. It's the same weight, more power, wide ratio six speed box, screw and locknut tappets and long service intervals.


Fair enough. How much are you looking at for a decent one? I was under the impression smiles per cash ratio was pretty good on a DRZ.
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garth
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two and a bit for a decent one, so probably less than you'd pay for a drz.

I've been pondering selling mine, but only to get a 701, and with a house move incoming, I probably shouldn't dip into the deposit for a 701 that I don't need.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:

Could always go KTM 300 EXC with RS125 wheels if you want cast wheels, otherwise talon/excel combo as usual.

It'll be a fun bike. Laughing


They're fun, but every single 2 stroke I've owned has ended up needing rebuilds and breaking down all the time. I'd only buy another if it was cheap and as soon as I bought it be doing a full rebuild. I was mechanically sympathetic and did the maintenance intervals on time as well. Along with good 10-15 minute slow riding warm ups before hitting the power.

2 Strokes are very fun, but seem to always be ragged and sold when falling apart.

I'll probably look more into the 690SM's. I've rode a DRZ I wouldn't really want one as a fun toy.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 05:40 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
So a WR426 apparently needs new rings every 600 miles and you think a 2T is unreliable?

If you refresh a 2T engine properly, it should be good for 10,000 miles with a few gear oil changes.
No valves, no oil filters, no cams, camchain...

A TDR250 is the most fun bike I’ve ever ridden. 250 YPVS twin with 45bhp and decent brakes. You need £4K for a tidy one now though.


I was interested in WR426's until I heard of the 600 mile piston ring changing procedure. Laughing

I fully rebuilt my DTR 125, deleted the oil pump and ran premix and it still broke down all the time, not to mention the carb issues as they weren't designed to run premix. I personally wouldn't buy one again after all the constant money chucking I did at the DTR and it'd still break down.

I even did entire rebuild frame up and it still broke down & the engine was rebuilt bottom & top end with the cylinder relined. I got 8,000 miles out of the engine rebuild IIRC. It was knocking from the rod bearings when I sold it and kept heat seizing.

I warmed it up correctly but pretty much had it pinned around country lanes every time I rode it. It was a '97 model and I spent £250 buying DT125X parts to supermoto conversion it. Laughing

Funnily enough every time I was in the Yamaha dealer ordering parts or buying 2 stroke, I'd see a guy on an immaculate red & white TZR 350. The chap in the Yamaha shop said his spent a lot of money on parts in there and it's always breaking down.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Having run a 426, I'd heartily agree there's far better bikes out there if you like riding more than maintenance. Plus being kick start only is an absolute nightmare with the compression on that bastard.
Look for a nice clean ccm r30 or 644. Better than the drz, less pricey than a 701, but still enough ponies to enjoy!
I've had all 5 over the years, and if I didn't have a duke 790 now, I'd be watching out for another r30.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would have thought that yes, 2 strokes need a top-end rebuild more often than a 4 stroke but doing such on the former is much easier and cheaper than the latter. And isn't the point of an oil pump to throw more oil in on full throttle than it does on idle? Pre-mix is the same ratio all day Thinking
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:

I suspect your idea of a full rebuild isn't the same as mine. What were these breakdowns? Could it be that the bike was old and poorly maintained? My TZR's and TDR are over 30 years old.


Full rebuild bottom & top end. New conrod, every single seal and bearing replaced in the bottom end & cylinder rebored with over sized piston to go with it.

I even rebuilt the frame on that bike, new headstock bearings new chain and sprockets etc etc.

As for the premixing I ran premix due to oil pump failure.

As for the TZR it's obviously a typo. Rolling Eyes
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boxing wrote:
As for the premixing I ran premix due to oil pump failure.


Did you up-jet for the premix? If I remember correctly the oil in pre-mix replaces fuel so you then have a lean mixture which can cause extra heat leading to heat seizures.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 16 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Boxing wrote:
As for the premixing I ran premix due to oil pump failure.


Did you up-jet for the premix? If I remember correctly the oil in pre-mix replaces fuel so you then have a lean mixture which can cause extra heat leading to heat seizures.


I was on the DTR forums when I had the bike, like 60% of the members on there ran premix, I think they didn't have a problem staying at #240 main jet when running premix. Mine never had any issues until around 8,000 miles. The crank bearings were shot as well, had a loud audible knocking noise from the bottom end.

I would have plug chopped it as well when I first rebuilt it.

I bought the bike in 2012, blew it up around 2013 and did the bottom end and sold it in 2016 I think, when it blew up again.

Of course my bike spent the vast majority of its life pinned so for that reason alone you should deduct some mileage off the top end. But the bottom end shouldn't have failed.

It had an intermittent electrical gremlin as well, every time it rained it'd bog and stall out. I think I went through about 3 different HT leads & spark plug caps for the problem to still occur.
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 03:35 - 17 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:

I think you’ve just found the issue with the DTR which keeps blowing up.

My TZR’s as standard run 230 mains. I ran 320’s on the pre-mix race bike and fuelling was spot on with a File tuned motor, airbox trumpet removed and Gibson spannies. Over 100 races on each engine and no mechanical DNF’s at all, just a piston, rings, small end and pin change every 5 meetings.

2 strokes if maintained and setup properly are no less reliable than a 4 stroke. Having road raced them for 5 seasons, I should know.


But then all the DTR forums would have the same issues, surely? None of them had issues and 8,000 miles until it started breaking down. I wouldn't link the premixing and topend failure together. The book is 10-15,000 miles for a top end.

It blew up four times in total IIRC, three of them times was without premix and once with premix where the bike got threw on eBay as spares. It was a rallied nail, I wasn't exactly nice to it either. I pinned it every single day on the country lanes. It had absolutely no issues with the engine apart from when it was raining and after 8,000 miles.

Also, I'm fairly sure KTM 300 EXC's are premix only. Unless you get a TPI model where they're a whole new design, I don't know the scientific way they've done it but they're autolube.

But like I said, I wouldn't buy a 2 stroke without doing a top end rebuild minimum from the day I bought it.

Also can we stop talking about a bike I sold FOUR years ago? Laughing
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Boxing
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 17 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
- wrote:
Boxing wrote:

But then all the DTR forums would have the same issues, surely? None of them had issues


Ah, so it's not 2 strokes in general then, just the bike you maintained.
Got you now. Thumbs Up


Rolling Eyes I like how you select and carefully edit things you choose to believe. The DT forums were full of 40+ year old's that restored their bikes and rode them once in a blue moon. Wink

OMG, someone's expressed their experience with a 2 stroke and I absolutely love them, how dare they have an opinion opposed to mine! Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes
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