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Disc bolt corrosion

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B0ndy
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

Is it worth replacing these?

And if so would you go OEM or Probolt (£80 for front set, stainless steel) ?

Only surface corrosion but it's bothering me and if it gets worse it may be a pig to get them out when the discs need replacing. What do you think bcf

https://i.imgur.com/XOnSC7r.jpg
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling it's recommended to change bolts with the discs (presumably on the assumption you'll wear through the disc faster than the bolts would corrode)? I wouldn't bother with stainless steel personally nor would I change those in isolation unless they're really bothering you - I very much doubt there's any significant structural deterioration.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If their nothing special replace them , have a look and see if there is something suitable in Toolstation, they do stainless at a good price
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll be a harder type of metal which will corrode yes but not like you see on other bolts - it's just surface stuff.
Avoid stainless and just get suitable replacements if they're bothering you. Have you tried taking one out to look at the hidden parts? You'll probably see no change.

I can get replacements for mine from Haines & Co for 65p each.
Buy suitable parts from a good supplier because your life (and others) depends on them.
ToolStation or Screwfix sell basic stuff. They buy it cheap to sell it cheap and it might be good for holding a shed roof on but it ain't good for stopping 1/4 ton at 60 mph.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you a metallurgist ? if they are hard bolts they will be marked with a hardness number.

By the way I'm a 383 Qualified Technician, my advice is correct and good
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Grubscrew
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would replace them, because the rust will then corrode the disc next to each bolt.
There are titanium bolts which I fitted on both my bikes. Strong and corrosion resistant.
If you do remove, you’ll find the originals will have been loctited in , so my suggestion is to warm gently the area where the bolts screw in, it just eases the the loctite.
Do not use an impact battery wrench....you’ll snap the head off...then you’ll be well cheesed off.
Get some new loctite thread lock, low or medium strength.
Good luck.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
Are you a metallurgist ? if they are hard bolts they will be marked with a hardness number.

By the way I'm a 383 Qualified Technician, my advice is correct and good


OK I'll bite.
Firstly, what the fuck is a '383 Qualified Technician'? Google doesn't tell me - do you fix toilets??
I'll drop this here:

https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/blog/2017/09/15/stainless-steel-and-aluminum/

Read it. Many people use stainless into aluminium and know of the galvanic corrosion problems - they add grease or copperslip to help reduce it. Remember these components are subject to extra corrosion from road conditions. These disc securing bolts, as mentioned by another, are Loctited in and not greased. Would you grease bolts that kept brakes together?
If you would, you should be fixing toilets and not 383s.
Oh - not all bolts carry hardness numbers you plank - not all bolts have numbers.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id rub them down and carefully black hammerite or polish them up and forget about them.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

B0ndy wrote:
Only surface corrosion but it's bothering me and if it gets worse it may be a pig to get them out when the discs need replacing. What do you think bcf


Use some Jenolite on them and then paint if you think it's worth it.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, what the fuck is a '383 Qualified Technician'? Google doesn't tell me
Ok turd , I'm a fellow of the institute of the City & guilds qualified on motor vehicles ,
MOT tester for cars and motor cycles.

what the fukc are you to advise on technical subjects as material hardness?...…. your not
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 22:18 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
your not

You're not.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
Firstly, what the fuck is a '383 Qualified Technician'? Google doesn't tell me
Ok turd , I'm a fellow of the institute of the City & guilds qualified on motor vehicles ,
MOT tester for cars and motor cycles.

what the fukc are you to advise on technical subjects as material hardness?...…. your not


Didn't manage O-level English though eh?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
They'll be a harder type of metal which will corrode yes but not like you see on other bolts

( 8< )

it ain't good for stopping 1/4 ton at 60 mph.

This is interesting. What "type of metal" are disc brake retaining bolts made of? I studied some metallurgy, but it was a while ago. Martensite and pearlite; montmorillonite and so on.

Re stopping, the force needed is only that required to prevent the wheel rotating plus a little bit at whatever speed.

Wink
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 06:29 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, some people can't help but bark when they should shut up.
Interesting how the argument has gone two ways..

Metalurgy - blacksmith/welder so stick that up your arse and smoke it. You repair cars then - so in other words you replace LIKE FOR LIKE.

Op - go spend less than £10 on GENUINE PARTS which will SAVE YOUR LIFE.
The toilet guy reckons your life is worth less than £10.

The more I think about the toilet guy, the more I think about that sound when you tap a plank of wood with your knuckle..
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

B0ndy wrote:
... it may be a pig to get them out when the discs need replacing. What do you think bcf


Disc bolts are nearly always a pig to get out by the time a disc needs replacing. They tend to be threadlocked in well.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Sister Sledge wrote:
They'll be a harder type of metal which will corrode yes but not like you see on other bolts

( 8< )

it ain't good for stopping 1/4 ton at 60 mph.

This is interesting. What "type of metal" are disc brake retaining bolts made of? I studied some metallurgy, but it was a while ago. Martensite and pearlite; montmorillonite and so on.

Re stopping, the force needed is only that required to prevent the wheel rotating plus a little bit at whatever speed.

Wink


No-one is claiming to be stopping a dead weight instantly. Hard bolts are just that - harder. Not only is the metal harder but it has increased strength in various ways - a good example is the stator bolts upgrade on a DRZ400.
Obviously metals come as many variants - far too complex and pointless to list here - especially seeing as some folk can't spell never mind understand the importance of brakes actually working.

Can you imagine it: Op listens to 383 guy and replaces the bolts with stainless steel shed roof bolts. Corrosion sets in and best case is the bolts seize into the wheel and he needs new wheels or worst case that the bolts corrode and become thinner. Pull that brake lever and nothing because the disc is removed from the wheel.

Honestly, for the sake of a tenner why people mess on with brakes I'll never know..
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 08:12 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are lots of different grades of a given metal, some will be more malleable and others harder along with a suite of other properties. Shear strength is the important property in this application, not tensile strength. It's entirely possible that Screwfix bolts have the same steel (or stainless steel) as "proper" brake disc bolts, but even then things like QA checking might be different meaning your Screwfix/budget bolts aren't manufactured to the same tolerances.

Something else to consider (although I don't think it's likely that either they'd fail in all honesty, or that it could be proved); if your brakes failed because non-brake specific bolts were used to hold the disc on, I can't image your insurance company would be very impressed.

I'd look at the bolts removed, if they look OK just leave them, otherwise replace with brake-specific ones.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: corrosion Reply with quote

I would replace them or at least some anti corrosion treatment, if you can get them out all ok and they do not "round off" first.

Stainless Steel is great, but a volve penta ( archamidies anchor more like ) outboard motor had stainless steel bolts and screws etc. and every dam one was a real battle to get out!! Admittedly its was an outboard motor used on the brinney, and stainless steel in alloy, but a real battle non the less. It took many many many hours just to remove covers, not to mention cylinder heads etc. etc. etc. It would have been much cheaper to use this motor as an anchor and get a new motor ffs!

Be prepared for a battle getting those allan bolts out, you have a MIG??
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A100man
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 27 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
B0ndy wrote:
... it may be a pig to get them out when the discs need replacing. What do you think bcf


Disc bolts are nearly always a pig to get out by the time a disc needs replacing. They tend to be threadlocked in well.


Pete's (and BN) nailed it. I would even think of what to replace them with unless I could get them out. Tried removing some similar form the wheel of a GPZ900 and I'll be blowed if I could remove them all. Heat, air-impact gun etc.. etc..

..as you were with the hand-bagging.
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WHRSN83
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 11 Feb 2020    Post subject: Re: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

B0ndy wrote:
Is it worth replacing these?

And if so would you go OEM or Probolt (£80 for front set, stainless steel) ?

Only surface corrosion but it's bothering me and if it gets worse it may be a pig to get them out when the discs need replacing. What do you think bcf

https://i.imgur.com/XOnSC7r.jpg


At first i use Rust Remover, then I just replace them using impact wrench on the 1 mode and stainless steel bolts. Calm and easy. It's easiest way to keep the anchorage of the wheel.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 11 Feb 2020    Post subject: Re: Disc bolt corrosion Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:

Disc bolts are nearly always a pig to get out by the time a disc needs replacing. They tend to be threadlocked in well.


Pete, do you threadlock disc bolts you replace?
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 12 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I have disc bolts out I always use the blue Loctite.

Some bolts are pre-threadlocked

https://yambits.co.uk/fj1200a-brake-disc-bolt-kit-rear-p-14215.html
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 12 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use threadlock as per the manual for the duke.
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ZRX61
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 13 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
Firstly, what the fuck is a '383 Qualified Technician'? Google doesn't tell me
Ok turd , I'm a fellow of the institute of the City & guilds qualified on motor vehicles ,
MOT tester for cars and motor cycles.

what the fukc are you to advise on technical subjects as material hardness?...…. your not


There's a C&G just for MOT tester?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 13 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey now, hey now now

Sing disk bolt corrosion to me

(After all we're looking at a hit from yesteryear....)
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