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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 22 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
linuxyeti wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I can see a lot of bike manufacturers closing down. I just don't think motorcycling has the mass appeal to transfer to electric successfully.

Look on this site, there are 1 or 2 protagonists, a few ambivalent and most against.

I reckon a large swathe of bikers won't make the change, certainly the older ones and attracting new blood is hard enough as it is.

Chinese disposable electric scooters will become the norm. Bikes for fun? Not at that money.


What makes you think that?? What percentage of owners of the currently 'active' 1.3 million motorcycles in the UK are on this forum? Those of us on here, are very much in the minority of the motorcycle owning public, and, probably not all that representative.

As time progresses, costs come down, and range continues to increase, and choice of manufacturers and models increases, there's no reason why current manufacturers should go to the wall.

Even Triumph have a electric bike coming along, Royal Enfield are known to be working on 1, a number of patents have been applied for by the various japanese manufacturers ...

What, they, have to be wary of, is, the chinese, who's ev's are getting quite advanced, and as a country they are probably somewhat ahead of the curve in both ownership and manufacture of ev's. I would really like to see a UK distributor pick up the Evoke brand, they look a very decent proposition, and, are getting really good reviews in the press.. Anyhow, I digress, essentially, the current mainstream manufacturers really do need to start upping their game in this area, or, risk losing out.


Motorcycling is a visceral experience. I love winding up through the gears, the whole 'getting it right' experience when pushing it through the bends. Even on my big old bus I still push the envelope at times.

I don't want a twist and go, however fast it is. Talking to most of my riding friends who have everything from an MVF4 (silly boy) to a GS, they don't want that.

What will be the point in track days where basically the skill will be to go as fast as you dare. No need to be in the right gear for the corner or the overtake. No fun trying to beat that R6 on your bog standard Fazer.

I think that electric scooters for commuting will be what keeps the bike industry going, not an electric Goldwing, R1 or Rocket 3.

Just my view.
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2wheelLover51
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Leccy bikes Reply with quote
Aye, and I wonder what the workshop section will look like, all about what brands of armatures and carbon brushes to buy and who gets the most miles per Amp/hr... Laughing Rolling Eyes
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


Motorcycling is a visceral experience. I love winding up through the gears, the whole 'getting it right' experience when pushing it through the bends. Even on my big old bus I still push the envelope at times.

I don't want a twist and go, however fast it is. Talking to most of my riding friends who have everything from an MVF4 (silly boy) to a GS, they don't want that.

What will be the point in track days where basically the skill will be to go as fast as you dare. No need to be in the right gear for the corner or the overtake. No fun trying to beat that R6 on your bog standard Fazer.

I think that electric scooters for commuting will be what keeps the bike industry going, not an electric Goldwing, R1 or Rocket 3.

Just my view.


What makes you think all electric bikes are twist & go, there are some being designed with gears as well. As for track days, what % of riders overall do trackdays, not much of a percentage at all. As for Goldwings, R1's and Rocket 3's, again, don't see them appearing on the high selling bikes lists, so, again, they are really only niche markets that you're highlighting, neither of those are needed to keep a brand going.. I'd wager, based on the one of the groups I'm a member of that has ~11000 members, most riders are on middle of the range all rounders, good for commuting, weekend fun, and some touring, this is the market that is most likely continue, possibly even thrive, going forward.

There will still be electric superbikes for those who so desire them, there are already some..
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Electric touring? Thinking
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/long-way-up-tv-/
Quote:
"We went with electric motorcycles because we wanted to be part of that new wave of transportation,"

"We’d just knock on people’s doors and ask if we could plug them in. They let us and we’d camp in their garden and sometimes it would blow the fuses in the house because we had two bikes plugged in at the same time, which was embarrassing.

"The truth is, I got towed a couple of times."

The (specially-prepared Harley Davidson) Livewire has a range around 100 miles, which even with fast charging will limit their progress.

Once they got into the US charging stations were apparently plentiful, enabling them to up their average daily distance to 300 miles from around 150 while they were in the south.

For much of the journey they were followed by petrol and diesel-powered vehicles, which ferried battery packs around to keep the bikes topped up.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Listen to the Green Party and they would ban tyres never mind ICE vehicles. Seems there are nasty particles that come from tyres?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Electric Motor:

Very low maintenance.
Almost zero emissions.
Ultra Quiet.
Competitive Power to Weight ratio.
0-Max RPM in one revolution.

There are a lot of desirable attributes.

ICE:
Heavy on 'specialist' maintenance.
Noisy.
High emissions.
Heavy and filled with friction and un-balance.
Slow to reach peak power.
Going out of favour.

Aye... When I were a lad I remember dad would go to these special places to put liquid to fill the tank.

The car we have today gets charged up by sunlight or street lights.
But if there are no street lights around then the induction strip in the roads keep the storage cell full.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 23 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Aye... When I were a lad I remember dad would go to these special places to put liquid to fill the tank.

The car we have today gets charged up by sunlight or street lights.
But if there are no street lights around then the induction strip in the roads keep the storage cell full.

Indookt'n strip? You was lucky! We 'ad t' tram:

https://new.siemens.com/global/en/products/mobility/road-solutions/ehighway.html
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 24 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
linuxyeti wrote:

What makes you think all electric bikes are twist & go, there are some being designed with gears as well.


I'm eagerly awaiting royal enfield working out they can stick the business end of an electric motor through the front hole of a classic bullet primary drive case and attach a sprocket.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 24 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

What will be the point in track days where basically the skill will be to go as fast as you dare. No need to be in the right gear for the corner or the overtake. No fun trying to beat that R6 on your bog standard Fazer.

Kinda the case on a lot of litre bikes, that can have an R6 worth of power by not far off half revs.
And with a lot of fancy traction control, the throttle can be used more like a switch.
And of course with electric there's deeper options for even more precise traction control, with an even more direct connection.

I always liked the idea of making a pitbike/cub style engine, keeping the gearbox but replacing the ICE with electric - someone is actually doing that now. An interesting, though still expensive at the moment, option for a lot of bikes, especially the Hero Honda range etc in India.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Who's going to be the first on here to buy a Cake Bike?

https://ridecake.com/kalk-or/
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Who's going to be the first on here to buy a Cake Bike?

https://ridecake.com/kalk-or/


What the actual fuck? Am I reading this correctly: 13 THOUSAND Euros?!?!?!

You could build better yourself for less that half of that Shocked
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Who's going to be the first on here to buy a Cake Bike?

https://ridecake.com/kalk-or/


https://ridecake.com/wp-content/uploads/kalk-prod-series-front-181008.jpg

That is gross. That is obviously a computer image. That is obviously........................ CakePal
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste, you picked the expensive ugly one. If you check through that site there is this beauty at a mere 6500 euros.
https://ridecake.com/wp-content/uploads/osa-lite-01.jpg
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh yeah, it's got those classic, RE Bullet vibes going on...


...not! Puke
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Ste wrote:
Who's going to be the first on here to buy a Cake Bike?
https://ridecake.com/kalk-or/

What the actual fuck? Am I reading this correctly: 13 THOUSAND Euros?!?!?!

With two batteries (I don't know if both fit on at the same time) it's 16,000 euros. 3,000 euros for the battery.... Smile
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
That is obviously a computer image.

No, it's a photo.

https://ridecake.com/kalk-or/#gallery

They're pretty crazy!!
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 25 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't look very comfortable.

13,000 euros for something capable of 50mph (80km/h)

Battery life 80km, so theoretically you could have to charge it every hour.

What would the licencing laws be in this country, i.e. would it be equivalent to a 50cc that you could ride at 16?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Doesn't look very comfortable.

13,000 euros for something capable of 50mph (80km/h)

Battery life 80km, so theoretically you could have to charge it every hour.

What would the licencing laws be in this country, i.e. would it be equivalent to a 50cc that you could ride at 16?


11kW so firmly pitched as a 125/A1 type bike. You'd think for that money they could at least throw on some lighting and make it road legal Shocked

A 1.5kW eBike is closer to 50cc BTW, if you want something to ride at 16.

<addendum> Thing is, people were building similar things years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zUBqpdTlKU
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Ste
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PostPosted: 08:32 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's pitched as more of a silly toy than as an alternative to 125 bikes.

https://youtu.be/TVwVK5wL2WA?t=367
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsprALBwahg

Expect there are lots of better videos, like the ones on the Cake Bikes gallery, as those two youtube videos are just of Sam Pilgrim (mountain bike person) fucking around on one. Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:41 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKWEn1yFIws

"High street" car charging stations are already gouging EV owners to the point you could consider it more costly to run than petrol?!

Another point for electric motorbikes: no worries charging from home or office as 13A is usable.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:46 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Is this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKWEn1yFIws

"High street" car charging stations are already gouging EV owners to the point you could consider it more costly to run than petrol?!

Another point for electric motorbikes: no worries charging from home or office as 13A is usable.


Of course it is. It's the start of something I've been shouting about for months. Once everyone gets onto the leccy vehicle bandwagon then electricity prices will increase dramatically. More so at charging stations but remember those household smart meters? Yeah well they're smart enough to know when a heavy consistent load is being applied, will automatically send that information to your energy supplier and before you know it, your energy bill will magically adapt and change to a higher KWH just at the point when you usually start charging your leccy vehicle.
Household smart meters have sim cards in them. They grass on you when you're carrying out certain tasks. The energy supplier excuse will be that they're attempting to get people to charge vehicles at times when peak demand on the grid is low and thus level out overall demand on the network. It's bollox of course because they're corporations that need profit above anything else and quite literally people cannot change their charging times because that's when the vehicle is stationary.

Can anyone remember when diesel vehicles being run off supermarket cooking oil grew in popularity? Cooking oils were basically half the price of diesel. As if by magic those cooking oils then increased in price and are now the same price (or more) per litre than pump diesel. You'd think that cooking oil suppliers wanted their piece of it too..

Just wait till heaps of vehicles on the UK roads are electrically propelled. That's when you'll see the real increases in prices of electricity. The owners will have no choice in the matter and will have to pay more to be able to use them.
Currently we see a massive fuel duty tax which pays for god knows what (wars?). Government will want to continue that grabbing of fuel duties and the leccy vehicle will pay for it.

Finally - who has a smart energy meter at home? Why??
It doesn't save you money - that has to be done by you when you panic at how much a chicken cost to roast etc. There's a reason why they pushed those meters onto people..
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dynax
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I refuse to have a smart meter, and when the day comes and they say I MUST have one i will go out and buy a generator and fuck the leccy company off completely Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I last changed energy supplier there wasn't one that had a decent rate that didn't insist on a smart meter except for a couple of new, small suppliers that I just didn't trust.

They've got you bent over a barrel.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
dynax wrote:
I refuse to have a smart meter, and when the day comes and they say I MUST have one i will go out and buy a generator and fuck the leccy company off completely Laughing


As someone who has a generator on his boat I can say that is very much cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Generator produced electricity is not cheap even compared to marina hookup prices and anyway, what happens when the fossil fuel ban comes in? You will using candles and open fires. Oh sorry, you won't because they will be banned as well. Wink
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wonder if at some point electricity costs will ramp up so much that it really would be a good idea to link an RS50 to a charger and ride it round in circles.
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