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arry
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the Scousers were out in force:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

Awaits someone to point out it's what the Govt wanted to happen so they could blame the people rather than themselves blah blah.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Probably a stupid question but do many people actually die of Corona virus or is it more because of other things brought on or amplified by corona virus.

Nobody dies of old age these days, there's always a cause which implies it wasn't inevitable and they could have been saved.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Gym bunny mate of mine with no clear health issues other than BP a touch high has been in hospital two weeks now with Rona, and is now on a ventilator / ECMO.

Athletes can be generally more susceptible to infection.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8171226/
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
See the Scousers were out in force:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

Awaits someone to point out it's what the Govt wanted to happen so they could blame the people rather than themselves blah blah.

Laughing
Ironic. Lisa Nandy (Labour, Wigan) had been on TV saying Northerners felt the government was working against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AijNCV_JWMs
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
See the Scousers were out in force:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481

Awaits someone to point out it's what the Govt wanted to happen so they could blame the people rather than themselves blah blah.


And then they wonder why they get these draconian rules foisted upon them. I work in Liverpool, it's full of clowns. Sadly, Covid friend is a Scouser but has been very careful. Whereas bosses son went on a 5 day bender for his birthday which was when he caught it. Rolling Eyes
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno how I'd cope with Covid but I recall when I used to smoke the flu absolutely flooring me one time. Common Cold was 50/50 - sometimes an awful couple of days but maybe up to a week of snot & coughing Sick

Since I quit I've had the flu once and while it's not something I'd go looking to catch it wasn't too bad. Colds have gone down to getting over them in a day or even hours with regards to the worst symptoms. So I can well understand underlying health issues having a big impact on Covid outcomes.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Gym bunny mate of mine with no clear health issues other than BP a touch high has been in hospital two weeks now with Rona, and is now on a ventilator / ECMO.

Athletes can be generally more susceptible to infection.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8171226/


Forgive me if I'm wrong, I just scanned quickly, that says it's more to do with the stress side of things - going off that it could happen to a couple of us who work there Laughing

See they're talking about putting Manchester into Tier 3 now too - clowns they are. There's going to be lots of MH issues and such because of the closing of the gyms again - good to see some gyms in Liverpool were refusing to shut, hope they win the argument given the ridiculously low transmission rates. Or Alternatively, they can start serving food or putting more tills in Rolling Eyes
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read it as physical stress but yeah, mental stress won't help.

France is about to impose an actual curfew.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54535358

I hate to get all Rebel tin foil hat but it's almost like governments are seeing how far they can go. Nonsense, of course, because they wouldn't choose to damage the economy. On the other hand even if they now thought herd immunity was the way to go, they've come too far to admit it and let life return to normal. And if they did climb down they'd get the blame for every subsequent Coronavirus-connected death.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 14 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
And if they did climb down they'd get the blame for every subsequent Coronavirus-connected death.


All governments are going to get that anyway. If Boris did all that Starmer demanded, with more deaths he'd still get the blame. It is an unfortunate part of being in power; where the buck stops. What is the best policy at any given time will always be largely a matter of opinion where there are conflicting concerns, e.g. health vs economics.

What I find somewhat disingenuous are those who say there seems to be no plan, and in the next breath say the government haven't acted quickly enough to a changing situation. What's that phrase from the military people? "No plan survives contact with the enemy"? Who has correctly predicted every change and trend with this disease? Who wants to try, here and now, in this very thread? Where will the situation be at the end of December for instance? Do tell, anyone...?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Nonsense, of course, because they wouldn't choose to damage the economy.


Damage for whom? The Man On The Clapham Omnibus may not be doing so well but the billionaires of the world are doing just fine; better if anything.

The Tin Foil hat brigade would have you believe that Trump was doing soooo well the virus was unleashed just so he falters in the election. But with the same logic you could argue Greta Thunberg did it - we do need to dispense with 5 billion or so people if we're to "save" the planet.

Well remember the old line "ppl who make hand sanitiser are rubbing their hands in glee" I suggest taking a long hard look at the pharmaceutical companies over the next few years. "Oh noes! It appears last year's vaccine is no good. We'll need more money to research this new strain!" Rinse and repeat Sad
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Nonsense, of course, because they wouldn't choose to damage the economy.


Damage for whom? The Man On The Clapham Omnibus may not be doing so well but the billionaires of the world are doing just fine; better if anything.

Yes I read that too, but billionaires will always do well and it's the man on the bus who elects the next government.
Easy-X wrote:
I suggest taking a long hard look at the pharmaceutical companies over the next few years. "Oh noes! It appears last year's vaccine is no good. We'll need more money to research this new strain!" Rinse and repeat.

I work for a pharmaceutical company and of course they want to make money, but the 'Big-Pharma' conspiracy theories are nonsense.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I work for a pharmaceutical company and of course they want to make money, but the 'Big-Pharma' conspiracy theories are nonsense.


The Opioid Crisis in the US would say otherwise?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say “conspiracy”, you reply with “America.” It’s natural.

“The Opioid Crisis” is a uniquely American problem due to pharmacists and doctors over-prescribing, and patients able to select their own medication to an extent.
[url] https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thrillist.com/amphtml/health/nation/why-are-prescription-drug-advertisements-legal-in-america[/url]
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Boris did all that Starmer demanded...


Starmer can't 'demand' that BoJo does anything. However, as he is employed as the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition, his role is to challenge and suggest alternatives.

Personally I think we do need a 2 week lockdown. Give us some notice so we can stock up first and do it to include the half-term week to minimise disruption to schools. Pay all adults £1,000 compensation for not going out over the full 14 day period. Doing this would be much cheaper than farting around as we are now. Trouble is, BoJo's character is such that he won't allow himself to implement any idea that comes from elsewhere, and particularly not from his nemesis...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Quote:
If Boris did all that Starmer demanded...


Starmer can't 'demand' that BoJo does anything. However, as he is employed as the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition, his role is to challenge and suggest alternatives.

Personally I think we do need a 2 week lockdown. Give us some notice so we can stock up first and do it to include the half-term week to minimise disruption to schools. Pay all adults £1,000 compensation for not going out over the full 14 day period. Doing this would be much cheaper than farting around as we are now. Trouble is, BoJo's character is such that he won't allow himself to implement any idea that comes from elsewhere, and particularly not from his nemesis...


Would only work if the police got off their arses and did everyone who broke the rules. Even if they were just caught on CCTV and done later. Never going to happen.

It would have to be a total lockdown. No one out. No shops. no meetings. All homeless in a ̶c̶a̶g̶e̶ place of safety and security. Sink any migrant boats in the channel. Close airports and ferry ports.

It'll never happen. FFS they can't even bring themselves to say you MUST wear a mask properly in shops.

Pah, maybe in China or South Korea where they do what they are told. In UK? Laughing
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doggone
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The purpose of the original lockdown was to avoid overloading the NHS which was reasonable at the time though largely based on chaotic scenes in Italy which weren't repeated here.
At that time daily admissions were rocketing but they aren't now.
London had just 40 yesterday.
There's also clear signs of a slow down in positive tests in NW England.

It seems reasonable to give the latest round of restrictions a chance to work (or not) but when anything new is introduced the lock downers immediately clamour for harsher measures.

Like a lot of other rules there isn't much point bringing in stricter versions if what we have now is disrespected and not enforced in any meaningful way.

If they get a two week shutdown now no way will it only be two weeks it will probably go on more or less until March.
Good luck with that, when you re-emerge into the smoking ruins.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people who know they can manage through lockdowns will call for lockdowns. Hell, some people would call for lockdowns if there was no virus.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I think people who know they can manage through lockdowns will call for lockdowns. Hell, some people would call for lockdowns if there was no virus.


Depends on what you call a lockdown.
Like before. Piece of piss to many, but not to others.
Lockdown as suggested above, no one allowed out. Now that would be hard.
How would old/other people that need support to live cope?

Like the idea of the £1K pay out though Thumbs Up

Was interesting to hear business moan that they were in tier 2 and got no support, that have been moved to tier 3 now moaning that they have been shut down.

Never please anybody... Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, people will call for the kind of lockdowns they think they can cope alright with.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is, it doesn't have to be difficult. Give us our £1000 beforehand so we can stock up on all those lockdown essentials (Tins of Roses, fags, lube, meds etc...) plus a bit of food, then make the list of justifiable reasons short and clear. As examples, people should only be able to go out if it is a genuine medical emergency, if they work in the NHS, if they are plod, prison service, armed forces, gas, leccy etc. Also farm workers with a crop to get in. There will be others, but my point is that most of us would have to stay inside. Go out without a reason and plod stick you in a van and take you to an internment camp for the duration. Seems simple enough! Very Happy
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, whilst in the internment camp you could be forced into making cheap and dirty porn which could be available via the BBC for those of us who still pay our license fee. After the watershed, naturally...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
In fact, whilst in the internment camp you could be forced into making cheap and dirty porn which could be available via the BBC for those of us who still pay our license fee. After the watershed, naturally...


I thought you were a lefty, not an exploitative porn mogul.

Give us a job. Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Thing is, it doesn't have to be difficult. Give us our £1000 beforehand so we can stock up on all those lockdown essentials (Tins of Roses, fags, lube, meds etc...) plus a bit of food, then make the list of justifiable reasons short and clear. As examples, people should only be able to go out if it is a genuine medical emergency, if they work in the NHS, if they are plod, prison service, armed forces, gas, leccy etc. Also farm workers with a crop to get in. There will be others, but my point is that most of us would have to stay inside. Go out without a reason and plod stick you in a van and take you to an internment camp for the duration. Seems simple enough! Very Happy


And meanwhile, the virus still survives within all those exception categories. Lockdown ends, and it spreads again. I just don't think complete eradication is a realistic goal. Even those countries who have controlled it best have had cases crop up again here and there. And what when you start to allow international travel again? I think you're trying to oversimplify something that is a very complex problem in today's world.

I've had to learn to live with the possibility of severe illness or even death from flu, pneumonia and other bugs since having my spleen removed. Welcome to my world. Even if we get a vaccine, chances are some will still be at risk. But you live your life anyway. What else can you do in that situation? Should I have sat indoors, isolated, since 1991 when they cut bits out of me? A daft proposition.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
In fact, whilst in the internment camp you could be forced into making cheap and dirty porn which could be available via the BBC for those of us who still pay our license fee. After the watershed, naturally...


Mug!
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 15 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A daft proposition


My non-medical opinion, for what its worth, is that we will have to return to normal sometime, so why not do it after a period of isolation where the percentage of persons infected is reduced?

We do know that it is only fatal in a small percentage of cases, and that whilst it can have pretty nasty long-term effects, the majority of those who have tested positive haven't been at death's door. It sounds callous, but I'm betting that whatever we do, those whose number is up will die and those whom God/Allah/Fat bloke with many arms etc etc chooses to survive will do just that. By having a 14 day lockdown we may just spread out the remaining deaths until after flu season and into next year.

Quote:
I've had to learn to live with the possibility of severe illness or even death from flu, pneumonia and other bugs since having my spleen removed.


Do you take precautions, or do you live your life like you still have a spleen?
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