Other engines fitting into CB125/SYM Classic 150 frame?

[PeterC]

So, I own a SYM Wolf Classic 150. Its a great bike; aside from some electrical issues from keeping it outside it still runs great after 5 years. But I was thinking that some day if I ever have the money I'd like to try upgrading it a bit.

From everything I can tell the frame is identical to the old CB125, so I figure if you have knowledge of the old CB bikes you might be able to help me out here; how interchangeable are the CB engines? As an extreme example I wouldn't expect to be able to fit a 4-piston 750 in it and that torque would probably rip up the frame, but could an engine from a cb250rs bolt in?

I chose that example as, like with the cb125, the 250rs is single piston so I'm guessing the chain won't be forced way wider away from the center of the bike, and in both the frame appears to not attach across the bottom which leads me to believe the 125/150 frame could handle the stress. Both also appear to have similar points for the engine to bolt into, and I'm guessing Honda would have had some uniformity for that type of stuff? I'm a little worried about where the 250 frame splits behind the engine while the 125 has that solid central post: seems that might mess with hooking in the carb.

But if Honda engines are interchangeable to a degree... what is the biggest engine that would fit that frame without bending it in half or some shit like that?

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb125t-england-frame-body_bigma000161f24_aebd.gif
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb250rs-1980-a-switzerland-frame-body_mediumma000141f28_b63e.jpg

[Teflon-Mike]

When you say CB125 you are invoking a LOT of motorcycles over the ages....

As far as your query is concerned though, most of the small honda singles share a common crank-case bolt pattern, tracing heritage back to the early CB125 OHC 'single' of the early 1970's. Shortly after, that was evolved into the legendary OHV push-rod single for the CG125, as well as the OHC 125 'twin', and the larger displacement 'Benly' twins, whilst the single evolved into the XL100 the CB100N, the XL185, and even the CB250RS four valve single.. and they ALL share that common engine mounting bolt pattern, and pretty much all are interchangeable in the frames.

There are a couple that aren't so simply interchangeable, due to the chain run and sprocket alignments, and electrically there are some differences, B~U~T on the whole they are pretty interchangeable.

But I dont know 'exactly' what you are starting with; a Sym 1250, suggests a bike with the 150cc variant of the old CG push-rod engine.. and there are a lot of candidates for what might be persueded to slot into the same chassis...

B~U~T... is it worth it?

Where would you get the engine from? Breakers tend to expect prety healthy money for most, and its often more ecconomical to but a whole bike, as a scrapper than 'just' an engine.. and that then begs query, why break a bike for an engine, why not just fix the scrapper?

As far as projects go,modifying bikes tends not to be a particularly cleaver thing to do. Usually begs spending more money to make a bike less reliable, less user friendly and more expensive to insure etc than you'd get just flogging what you got as is, and buying bike that does the job you want

Ponder that....

And you is starting with something of more dubious origin to begin with, that's in the rather under valued over 125cc class, so not Learner-Legal, or sought after.....

If you got the licence to ride an over 125cc motorcycle, like a 250.... taking even a rot-box CB250RS single, which is a pretty good motorbike, and for its capacity no slouch, its as powerful ad fast as many hot-snot non klearner-legal 125 two strokes... and trying to hot rod a 150 thing with its components, IS probably a rather expensive and frustrating exercise in futility....

If you really want the 'upgrade' then chucking a fraction of the conversion costs at something as uninspiring as a Kawasaki ER5, would almost certainly offer you an awful lot more of what you are looking for for a heck of a lot less blood sweat and hassles!

Only real reason for undertaking a project like this is shear perversity and the fun of problem solving... in which case why try NOT to have problems that need solving, picking an interchangeable motor?

So.... apart from wanting more oomph than a 150cc bike has to offer, whats the objective here?

If you like a challenge, well, you could make almost anything 'fit' in the frame you got.. just needs a big enough hammer and enough brute force...

If you want something that just goes faster.. well plenty of ways to get that too... how deep is your pockets? But ultimately a bigger faster STANDARD bike like say a £1000 ZZR1100 that offers 170mph out the box, is PROBABLY the least cost, least hassel ways about...

So how mnuch oomph do you want, how much hassle are you looking for, and ultimately what can you easiest live with?

Think hard...

Most small honda motors, singles and a fair few twins, will probably bolt straight into to your frame... but is ANYTHING a great idea and significantly better than whats already there?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[PeterC]

So, the bike my (2016) SYM Wolf Classic 150 most resembles is the Honda CB125 made from the early '70s through the mid '80s. I know the frame is pretty much identical, so I'm guessing anything that would fit the Honda frame would fit the SYM frame.

[Nobby the Bastard]

[PeterC]

[WD Forte]

I once put an XL500 engine in a CB250RS frame for a laugh
Whether you could push a cb250 or Xl 500 lump in a SYM 125 frame is unknown to me.

I wouldn't bother myself cos it is what it is, a cheap chinese 125/150
If I wanted a not too big knockabout bike say 250 to 500cc, I'd buy one
even a cheap shitter to use as a base and have fun tarting that up as the time and costs of fitting a quart into a pint pot can get out of hand.

Mind you
I think you can get 180cc big bore kits for these chinese 125 bikes
which is an option
( I still wouldnt bother though)
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[PeterC]

[WD Forte]

I stand corrupted

Even so, the frame, suspension and brakes etc however well built were designed for a lightweight 150cc runabout.
If time and moneys no object of course you could fit all manner of larger engines but you'd be pushing the envelope and not in a good way IMO.

As above I'd go straight for a 250/500 base bike and get straight to the fun bits
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[PeterC]

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh-Kay so your a septic. And an artist.. good combination for derision there.. but back to bikes..

I mentioned the CB250RS, a four valve single, that specs suggest is about a genuine 100mph motorcycle, and as fast as any of the hot snot 125 two-smokes. Its also light weight, and question about where your get an engine from... apart from my back yard that's littered with the damn things, mostly CB125 twins, what you got is a low rent Korean comuter.. so you take a cream crackered old 250 single... why chuck money at that to make it LESS valuable to start with and something it was never intended to be, and buy ptoblems you dont really need have trying to mongralise it with bits from another 'bstter' bike to make sometyhing that's neither better than either... why not just fix uyp the donor CB250RS and enhjoy it as intended, and if perverse enough; and you two declared statements at top suggest you are more than qualifdied to be... sustomise THAT?

Or you could buy any of the Kit-Chop chassis, for the ful monty, and do the cheque book build of your nicght-mares on that, picking the peanut tank from whatever catalogue and getting whatever OCC wannabe outfit to flame-paint it, and chucj in any engine you like from one of the Hardley repro's probably expected through one of the nostalgia brit twions through any of the rice burners.... end of the day its whatever form of masocism takes your fancy., This is a 'Project'.... but theres still limits to whats more or less doable or sensible.....

As hintimated some-one chopped up a mini-motop frame to fit around a GSXR drag bike engine, just for the lols, its all open and do-able with a big enough hammer and bank balence... but end of the day, how hard do you want to make the job for yourself?

Start by listing the good the bad and the ugly of the SYM... and what good you'd want from your creation.

You have mentioned good gas mileage...hint here is that MPG is an expression of power, only power used rather than power available... I have an old CB750, and a few old CB125's, I get around 70mph from either,. despite what the brochures say, suggesting around 100mpg for the 125 and 50 for the 750.. what the brochure says means effall in the real world, what you get is directly proportional to how far you twist the right wrist... and a bigger engine doesnt inherently mean a bigger gas-bill, or a smaller one a lower one... its down to you,m and if you HAVE more available power you will be inclined to use it, and that will result in less mpg....

So... carry on, contemplating mongralising your SYM.. but what do you really want, and given that something like 9 out of 10 projects end up unfinished, languishing in the back of sheds or barns or rotting at the bottom of gardens.... does THIS idea stand good odds of delivering what you hope for?

What are the alternatives?

And on that side of the pond, personally I would be looking at old 883 piglets, and wondering what deviouse things I could do with one opf them... they are cheap, they are easily available, and in a culture of 'custom' bikes a customised one stands fair odds of being worth a fair chunk of what it costs to build into the bargain.

In fact, not too many years ago, I DID consider a piglet, and 'project' to make an XR45 replica out of one.... then the factory did it... but still...

Good proportion of what you perceive as the light weight of the SYM, by the way has little to do with its actual weight, and that bog all to do with its engine displacement.

What you are experimenting, and associating with as 'light', is 'manageability', which is as much to do with weight distribution and geometry as anything, and likely largely accounted for by the shorter wheel-base of the SYM as anything.

Hardleys tend not to be particularly svelt as a rule, but, like I say not really much to do with the engine displacement.. they are heavy, but raked out forks and longer wheelbases coupled to low seats do a lot to make them peculiarly less manageable and 'feel' heavier. An 883 sportster stripped down in custom guise, is not all that heavy, and probably no heavier than your SYM.

O/H has a CB125, which catalogue says should weigh about 275lb. She also has a Goto-Muzzi 750, that the books say should weigh about 300lb. Practically, on the road, gassed up, they don't feel much different, and on the scales in my back yard,m they aren't... and de-crsuiserifying the Guzzi some, dropping the yokes down the forkstansions to lower it a bit for her, has made it a heck of a lot 'lighter'in the way it behaves...

It REALLY isn't much to do withe the quoted dry weight, or even the actual wet-weight; its entirely down to the 'manageability'...

And on a clean sheet 'project' if that's important, then what engine is in it wont make much if any odds.... but what you do vis geometry and seating position could.. so beware presumptions and chucking babies out with the bath water...

Back-To=Top... theres a heck of a lot of commonality in the small honda range and a lot of the singles and a couple of the twons, all the way from 100cc to 500cc share common cranki-case mounting patern, and are essentiually bolt for bolt interchangeable in the frame.... sorting out carb runs and exhaust runs and marrying wiring, is a far bigger headache, and if you are prepared for that, then making up adapter plates, like they did for the Tritons, tpo marr a Triumph engine with a Norton frame, really is small potatoes in the grander scheme of stuff, so again, how much hassel do you want, and when it comes to the 'dead' effort of building a custom, how much time, money and effort do you have to chuck at making a motorbike, likely less useful an less valuable? Its whatever sort of masochism you preffer really, BUT, have to say that its Irishman directions, and for where you say you want to get, I wudna be starting from here!

For the custom, project, I would be thinking that 883 piglet and a few catalogues, or I'd be pondering an Enfeild Bullet, or or or... I would NOT be starting with a SYMN or generic budget chinky, 'just' cos that was what I happened to have to hand, and I had some idea that it was 'light', and would remain so with a bigger displacement engine and whatever else I did to it....

But its your project, its whatever form of masochism YOU prefer, really.. none of it is sensible, its just more or less stupid and do-able!!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[stevo as b4]

Anywhere where a CB125 ohc single will fit, well an XLR200 motor should drop right in near enough. But its 18bhp. So yeah an upgrade but on a road bike with plenty of grip then 18bhp on a circa 120kg bike isn't going to change the world or make a dramatic forceful difference.

But if you want a sensible little Honda single to transplant into your bike, well a Honda CRF450 lump might be the ideal little upgrade?

[PeterC]

[PeterC]

[mentalboy]

What is there in the way of motorcycle salvage junkyards near you?

Unfortunately most grease monkeys in those places are likely to be Trump supporters but if you can stay off the subject of politics you should be able to find some knowledgeable types with a plethora of interesting stuff stashed in the dark corners, just don't wear your 'feel the Bern' tee shirt at the time!!!

I'd be more inclined to find a frame and engine that are already paired and then build up from there, although I'm not too sure what the situation with title would be going down that route. What about buying something with a title already, sure it's going to be older if you are looking for a Japanese engine but I'd take an older Japanese frame any day of the week over more modern far eastern builds.

The Z250 twin Kwaks were easy to work on and bombproof. Suzuki GT250 twins went like shit off a shovel but were a little more temperamental and probably tricky to find one worth the time and effort required to get it running. If it were me in your boots I'd be looking to bastardize a Honda 400/4 (brace yourself, the purists are likely to start getting vocal. ).
I went to a small yard down here (Head for I-10, turn south on I-75 and stop when you start hitting old people) and couldn't believe that there were at least four H2 engines lying around begging for some TLC, a little more grunt than you were looking for but that was just an example of stuff you won't find in a British scrap yard. There's a yard in SC with at least an acre of goodies that I'm keen to visit when I head that way again and I'll probably be looking for an H2 or old Z650 to play with.

As for your original question, you can fit anything you want in there - you are only limited by your abilities and tools, and/or budget. Can you weld? Turn up bushes?
____________________
Make mine a Corona.

[PeterC]

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh Kay.. probably not going to disued you or disabuse you of any of your pre-conceptions, b~u~t..

The sym you have is a retro styled commuter with, it looks like a derivative of the Suzuki GS125 OHC engine. The claimed 15bhp, is almost certainly hugely optimistic, and detuned to meet modern emissions is probably more realistically 9 or 10. The original GS motor or Honda's CB125 Single never made more than 12bhpo, and they detunbed that for reliability year on year even before emissions became an issue. I can understand a frustrating lack of ooomph.. b-u-t, it is what it is.

Style wise, what you are saying, and showing is pretty typical bike shed, geekster brat-chop Cafe-Trackers... sort of a mismach confection of syles taken from here and there, from all-round road bikes of the 60's & 70's with bits of variouse competition special or custom creatiuon chucked in here and there willy-nilly.

As such most end up an even bigger abortion, with shitting frog riding position, and lights that dont light upo the road if they even work, and bits of mechanics that cariousely try and burn you or stab you without even falling off.. but you come from the big EZ, maybe you are used to that

Like I said, back up.

The manageability you seem to applaud IS NOT a function of the bikes engine displacement you want to change anyway. Its down to the style and minimalism, and being 'small'. GEometry and weight distribution go as far in making that manageability as the size, while, as aluded the MPG you seem to like is also not a function of the engine displacement but your control over the twist grip.

For the style, almost anything is possible... and there are many off the shelf bikes out there that have it.. no spanners required.

But you are also shying away from mechanicals... you dont have a garage to work in, and dont want to get a welder...

This sort of suggests that you are not equipped to build a special from the very start, and would be as well off looking for what ticks the boxes in the shops, whether from the factory or some other masochist......

It also suggests you'd have a VERY steep learning curve to climb, and your chances of enduing up with an even remotely ride-able motorcycle, let alone your 'vision' are frankly are miniscule.....

Seriuousely, more realistically you are talking of taking spanners to a opretty useful motorcycle as it is, and turning it into scrap that costs you money and time, to sit at the bottom of the yeard looking sorry for itself, in a years time, no use to anyone but the stray dogs to cock thier legs on..... THAT unfortunately is the harsh reality of what you are proposing, whether a CB250 single or a GN400 engine would bolt straight in or not.... and even if it would, it almost certainly wont fulfull your vision anyway.. as said, neither manageability nor mpg is proportionalktop engine displacement.

Looking at the style. you say you like... I have to suggest you go paruse the brochures of the Royal Enfield or Norton dealers, as well as the generic chinks.. they all make bikes that lok sort of like that, and sghould work rtrit out the crate no aspanners needed.

If you want to play spanners?

Well, a project is anything you like really, b~u~t the more ambitious you are to start the less chance it is of being finished, let alone finished so its every day practical.

Renovating something 'standard'; or close to and painting to taste and maybe incorposating a few mild mods like triming th seat or removing mudguards stands a much better chance of being 'done' and usable for it.. especially as you mention not having the tools, space or skills needed upfront.

Personally I would suggest, if you like that old scool'look', look around for something off-the-shelof that has them,something maybe lika an Enfirld, of an old Yamaha XT500, and if old and knackered, excersizing spanners restoring that, then worrying about paint and seat cloth etc..

B~U~T its your project, you can do whatever you want... but if you want best chance of seeinf it to road at the end? Heed advice.... think small, and dont be over ambitious, or do anything to ruin what you got,m just cos that's what you already got,
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[PeterC]

[PeterC]

Oh, and this is one I took: you also have to dodge gators sometimes:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LOdZrNawh9w/XmbZZ48sNYI/AAAAAAAAANs/BUwtkjRJmd8etxCHI-eGIIG_wALcHHcvwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/gator.jpg

[mentalboy]

[PeterC]

[wr6133]

[mentalboy]

[PeterC]

[Teflon-Mike]

England and America. Two nations divided by a common language!
Seems we are communicating on skew paths... howebler.....
https://www.caferacerz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/honda-cb125-cafe-racer-2-slideshow.jpg
Just puling that from your examples, it looks like it started life as a like a CB125TD-C, of which I have one or two examples in various states of disassembly. (actually the file name now I have copied it actually calls it Honda-CB125-Cafe-Racer!)
The frame has been hacked though; I can tell you that much. Its been sawn off just behind the carburettors and a new sub-frame to support the seat grafted in.
This could, and probably has been welded, but getting a bit crafty, could have been a bolt-on, that probably has been welded up to suit, but could be constructed in many ways and not necesserily from tube, but perhaps sheet, folded and riveted... that could be done in my back yard with no particularly specialist tools.. just a big hammer, a vice a drill, and maybe some pliers.. you dont even need a fancy rivit tool if you use propper rivets and form the ends to grip with a hammer and die, or even just a hammer!
The main stresses the frame is carrying are between the steering stem supporting the forks, through the back-bone that goes over the engine, down to the rear swing... American/English game... we call it the swing-arm.... I think you call it the rear-fork... but same thing... beam that the back wheel goes up and down with. That bike has a 'mono-shock' and the suspension forces squash a spring thats supported at the top by a lugg on the main tube that comes down from the top tube, and is squashed at the bottom by a linkage hinged off the bottom of it.
That 'custom' seat-sub frame is taking virtually no structural stresses, as far as containing the torque the motor may make (which is pretty pitiful!) Its just supporting that part of the riders weight NOT supported by the foot-pegs or handlebars.
Chopping up frames is NOT that scary, if you have some idea about structure....
Meanwhile, on hat bike, and I presume yours, it has what's known as a 'Semi-Stressed' engine. The 'frame' has no bottom rails under the motor, the engine itself bolts into the hole between the front down tube and the main spine, to make up the 'structure'...
If the engine is out or not properly bolted in, then the whole frame can twist or bow, and this would the much more of a worry than any extra stresses than a bigger motor might apply!
As said I have a bunch of them 125 twins littering the yard, and I have dropped a 200 twin into a 125 frame, because they are bolt for bolt interchangeable... as is the 250 'Benley' twin I believe.
The engine sort of hangs off the rear down tube on plates that are welded to that and clamp round the back of the engine. At the front, a U shape bracket connects the front engine mount to the down tube, and a V-Bracket hangs off the back-bone and stresses the structure to the cylinder head.
Like I said, most of the small honda motors, whether singles or twins share common mounting bolt pattern on the engine, and many of them will bolt like for like between the frames. Where they wont, its no great shakes and still don't need a welder, just a hammer, vice and hack-saw to bend up bottom brackets to mate the front of the engine to the down tube, or the cylinder head to the spine.... and as ong as you have some common sense and awareness to make sure it all bolts up tight and will contain the stresses, it's likely all 'good'.
In similar manner, I mentioned the old Tritons, the marriage of a Triumph Bonaville engine into a Norton 'Featherbed' frame, the original 'Cafe-Racer'. Typically that marriage of moor to frame was done with adapter plates cut by hacksaw and hand drill from a bit of Duralamin plate, to match the bolt holes on the motor to suitable boltholes on the frame... its not exactly high end CNC engineering, just old fashioned common sense and 'craft'....
You REALLY dont need to have a fully equipped garage and Mc Toolkit to do this sort of stuff, JUST the know-how.... and that is where you are most lacking, I think.

Lets Hot-Rod a CB125 Super-Dream, like that one... just cos I have done it a couple of times!

As said,there's a whole plathora of small Honda engines that will drop straight into a 125-TD frame, bolt for bolt, this is REALLY not a big problem or issue.

This is REALLY not a big problem; there are a plathora of engines from the small Honda range that will drop in bolt for bolt.

The problems start when you look at the chain run, and the sprocket on the engine is 1/4 inch out of line to the one on the back wheek, or the exhasut that matches the enginedoesn't have any bracket to hang from at the silencer(muffler?) Or the carburettors dont line up with the snorkels for the air-box, or the ignition system for the engine doesn't match the ignition system on the frame.

THIS is where you start to get vexed, and whatever your grand plan at the outset, and your optimistic hope that an engine will just drop in like the one you took out starts to fall apart.. and when you get aroundt o solving these sort of niggles, you realise, that it die=dn;t really matter what engine you started with.. IF you had known.. you probably wouldn't have bothered....and now you do, well, the hassles involved the pains spent worrying about engine compatability really weren't worth the worry... As you still had to faff about with hack-saw and plate and drill, and fettling to fit.... you probably didn't save much if any effort, picking an allegedly 'interchangeable' engine over anything else.... and you could have probably slapped a Jowa speedway engine in there more easily, if only for the fact that you had no pre-conceptions and expectation that it 'should' bolt up, and could buy half made adapter plates off the shelf and saved your self a lot of head scratching to first you you needed an adapter, and more blood-sweat and pains trying to find suitable material and then cut and file it to shape!

Like I said, its all on the learning curve... where do you want to start?

Sensibly, for the learning pick a standard bike, and restore it to the book. First there IS a book, and what to do is laid out in easy to follow step by step instructions. Go custom and you have to write the book as you go.... then adapt that.

That is where you start on the learning curve, if you dint want to turn your pride and joy into a pile of scrap that sits around for the next decade or so, while you ponder the 'problems' you have to solve....

Meanwhile you say that you need this bike readable to get to and from.... remember the old addage, IF IT ENT BROKE----DONT FIX IT!

So why you want to make it broke, and plan getting someting that's not broke to use whilst you break it!?!?!?

Keep what you got, un-broke, and get something that's already brake to do the deviouse to! And if you want to use it, keep it to a known 'standard'; and start at the bottom of the learning curve, with a straight resto.. THEN when you have learned a few things, you might start doing a few mild mods along the way, and you might if you want more start over to do more, or do them to something else....

B-U-T your ideas as is, like that the manageability and MPG are some-how attributable to and proportional to the engine displacement.. are pretty nebulouse... You have the ambition to make art... but, are also both a bit lazy and dont want to have to do too much to make it, or step far from your comfort zone and take a chance.....

How much is a Van Rental?

That seems to be a pretty big excuse to looking for anything other than whats already right under your nose.... the USA is a pretty large land mass, and onlyt a little bit of it was hit by Hurricane Katrina... there are plenty of motorbikes ion other bits of the continent to buy... heck, there's folk buying them up, sticking them in containers and flogging them here as project bases, or booking a fly-drive holiday to go buy one your side of the pond, 'cos manufacturers chasing the $ flogged so many of them in the US in years past!

SERIOUSLY, if you are pondering a 'project'... re calibrate your perceptions!

IF you are too lazy to look a little further afield than the town you live in, and find ways to go get from that further local... then the immense hassle of a project is going to be enormous, and beyond you. If the expense of hiring a van or paying shipping is a deal breaker, then, again, you do NOT have what it takes to take on project! The cost of hiring a van or U-Haul for a week-end to go see and get a bike, are frankly a drop in the ocean of the all in cost of seeing a project through. The cost of incidental tools or materials you find you need along the way, are frog in the saucepan kind of costs that aren't often expected or planned for and have a habit of ramping exponentially... And its these sort of pit-falls that are the most common cause or project bikes ending up languishing at the back of sheds or yards never finished... you you bin warned.

For where you are at... I would seriously recommencement that you reel in the aspirations and ambitions a bit.... A straight to the book resto, is probably more than enough of a learning curve here and now, let alone trying to piggy back nebuliouse geekster ideas of hipsterisation into the bag.. and STILL if you are going to limit yourself to the bike you got or whats on your immediate door-step... you probably dont have what it takes to see ANY project through....

So think long and hard about what you really want to achieve, and how much you are prepared to put in to get that out, and rather than MAKING problems before you even start, spouting excuses for why you HAVE to hack the bike you got, and cant go buy anything else to bash about... look at the problems with that, and start there trying to solve them, rather than dodge them.... Just think... if that is how you start, trying to dodge problems, how you going to handle it when the flat seat you like in the catalogue needs that custom made sub-frame to fit it... and that begs some other way of mounting the rear shock absorbers, and the tail lamp and the indicators and and whatever other consequential problems ensue, that you had hoped to titally dodge at the beginning.

THIS is where it starts, PROBLEM SOLVING... that is even where most of the 'fun'is to be had. Not in the bragging rights of 'Well, its CUSTOM' and spouting hipster ideals of individuality... and if you are NOT prepared to tackle problems right here, right now at the very start? It dont bode well for any others along the line.... does it?

End of the day, its your project, its your money, and its you that got to live with it.... B~U~T........ you really are not heading towards achieving anything with the ideas you have got, and the constraints that you yourself are imposing, and the excuses you are already making for NOT doing anything different, all point at disappointment....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[mentalboy]