Are Scooters Safer?

[CorriganJ]

I see a ton of people in Madrid riding scooters without any protective gear (okay helmets are mandaory, but most do not cover the chin. Who needs a chin anyway?), but most people on motorbikes here do wear some sort of gear.

I was wondering if this is just because people with scooters are less "into" the bike scene and therefore don't invest in the gear, or if they actually don't need as much?

Presumably both travel at about the same speed (30mph in the city centre, hard to do more anywhere around here) but one thing that occured to me is that if a scooter falls on you, it's much less likely to trap or break your legs or ankles as... well... there is a massive huge gap where your legs go.

I don't know. Just general musings really. Also, I'm tempted to buy a Vespa PX while I'm here just for the giggles, and because I feel like a scooter might be more practical for city living. Or would I be better off with an actual motorbike? Should I just a touring bike down from the UK for a few months?

[stinkwheel]

I'd say they are more dangerous. You have more control of a bike because it has footpegs, it is more stable because it has bigger wheels and better suspension and it has more road presence so car drivers are less likely to take the piss.

The bike doesn't generally land up on top of you unless you fall over at walking pace or less.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MCN]

Italian Scooterists are not in the same sphere as Scooterists of other more sophisticated euro nations.
For some reason they appear follow a 1950s road traffic act (for when the roads were much quieter).
I don't think there is any policing and obviously they pay for (buy) the CBT pass cert.
Only a tool passes traffic on the wrong side of the road going around a bend when there is no escape space.
They rely heavily forntheir safety on the better nature and patience observed in other road users.
That's Italian Scooterists.

Apart from that, the only 'safe' aspects are possibly better protection from the elements around the legs.
But the performance is shite.
I think they handle like a fair ground dodgem car. And some look similar to a dodgem car too.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Doesn't matter what you're riding (sportbike, scooter, bicycle).... dragging your uncovered skin down tarmac at 30 mph feels the same no matter what you just came off ....
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DILLIGAF

[Polarbear]

I think they are because these scumbags in London that drive around with no helmets on hardly ever seem to get deaded, sadly.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[MCN]

[Teflon-Mike]

[barrkel]

The scooter shape doesn't save you much from getting stuck between the bike and the road. I've crashed maybe 7 times on scooters, about 3 out of those I got my foot stuck between the scooter and the road. I always wear boots - you will lose skin if you don't.

One crash was a u-turning driver who was letting his friend off at a bus stop - he did a u-turn out from in front of the bus as I was overtaking it. I hit my knees on the handlebars and slid face-first off his bonnet. That was the only accident which had significant visor damage and probably the only one where a full-face made a big difference. On a big bike I might have done more damage to my genitals hitting the tank.

Other crashes where I got caught were typically low speed high-sides, where the rear loses traction, you steer into the slide, then the bike gets traction again and slams over very sharply on the outside of the turn.

Another crash was an Uber driver who changed his mind about where he was going, indicating one way and turning the other. I slammed my hip into the panels on the side of his car, denting them and giving me a bit of a bruise, but I was otherwise uninjured. I could imagine breaking a leg on a bigger bike in that accident.

Scooters are typically ridden in cities, so speeds are lower. All my accidents were between 5 and 20mph. Either you start braking for the hazard when you see it, or you're doing a tight turn and lose traction; either way, you're not normally going super fast. None of my accidents were fast enough to tear my jeans, never mind get road rash.

On a big bike, you've got more acceleration so you can get into trouble much more easily, and if you don't have experience, inappropriate speeding is more likely and it will end up much worse. On the other hand, scooters are more maneuverable and in many cases it's possible to go more quickly through tighter gaps, swapping lanes etc. than on a big bike, so you could get yourself into trouble from agility rather than speed.

It's easier to swerve on a scooter when you have less experience because you can roll the bike with your body weight, but big bikes can swerve quite easily too, you just need to give it enormous sudden counter-steer, which takes a while to develop as an instinct, though some people probably take to it more naturally than others.

I commute in jeans, boots, leather jacket, gloves and full-face helmet. I've had one crash where I was wearing full gear (motorcycle boots rather than street boots, and armoured trousers) and while that crash certainly hurt less, the inconvenience is a poor tradeoff, despite the crashes I've had when not wearing all the gear.

If I had a long motorway commute, I'd probably consider an aerostich suit or similar one-piece textile that is quick to put on and take off. I do however notice myself taking a little bit more risk with high speed corners in the wet when wearing more gear, risk compensation psychology is something to bear in mind.
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[Claud 14.7 to 1]

Well a scooter crash at 30 mph and a motorbike crash at 30 mph... I guess there is not much difference, but I don't have any real evidence for this. Maybe there are some crash tests online or research on crash tests etc.?

Brakes are generally better on most motorbikes though (generally), so assuming the same low speeds, I think a motorbike would be "safer".

Overall it depends on the rider I think. I would guess many scooter riders in Spain or Italy don't really think of safety protective gear as motorbike riders do. Some do though. I've seen a fair few accidents on scooters in Spain (Barcelona) and it's a real issue.

They jump red lights, move off before the lights change green and don't stop when the amber is showing (try to squeeze though) and at a cross junction when both parties do this, it's pretty much a guaranteed crash.

[1198]

The bloke who came zooming past me (I was walking!) on a step thru earlier who’s idea of protective clothing was a pair of shorts - in March, in Cumbria. Brave, very brave. Not my idea of safe but there you go. I wouldn’t ride like that in any season personally...

[A100man]

[bhinso]

For some reason hat reminds me of the Harry Enfield "Women, for pities sake - don't drive".

[Easy-X]

[barrkel]

[dowoziyo]

much more important safety criteria are the condition of the road, driving culture and technical condition of the bike
https://pornogratuitici.com/fr/
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[megaross]

No, gearless scooter riders are usually just totally unaware of the potential damage they can do to themselves without proper safety gear.

Bike or car, it still buggers you up when a car pulls out on you or knocks you off, or you go sliding down the worlds coarsest sandpaper at 30mph or whatever.

The biggest one I see regularly which I think is absolutely nuts, no gloves. Just baffling - if you don't want to wear gear it's your choice but I always think

1. Are you hands not fucking frozen and covered in dead flies, battered by stones kicked up etc.

2. What do you think happens when you put your hands down and slide on them down the road at 30mph? Bear in mind if they do a full thickness skin graft (amputation is more common) it'll basically render your hand an inflexible numb apendage. To say nothing of how easy it is to shatter knuckles.
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'07 Tiger 1050

[MCN]

[stinkwheel]

[stinkwheel]

[bacon]

My most painful crash to date was a relatively low speed slide, prob 20mph. Thanks to gear I got away with just a very bruised hip/ass.

A scooter can still cause a lot of injury. People on the continent probably just don't give a f rather than it being safer. Seeing the way Europeans ride scooters I'd argue they put themselves in far more danger than the average bike rider in the UK.

[adam277]

I slide off my BMW R1150GS at about 30mph and the bike skidded for a good while.
I also headbutted a car.


Zero damage to the bike apart from indicator.
Yet, if the same thing happens to a scooter your spending £££££ on new panels.

Doesn't mean much for the rider though.

I'd say Scooters that have larger wheels are quite safe though.
Smaller wheeled scooters suck on UK roads due to the amount of pot holes.
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Current Bike: Honda CBF 125: current

[Claud 14.7 to 1]

[Claud 14.7 to 1]