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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
Trackday Trickster
Joined: 15 Sep 2019
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 Posted: 17:23 - 13 Mar 2020  Post subject: arse went on bends |
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Today was out and was trying to get the speed up on bends, not even that bendy but the transition from going right to a sharper left caught me out, felt like I threw bike over to fast. so slowed down when could have made it easy.. arse just went.
https://imgur.com/pVmbVqp[img][/img] |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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ThatDippyTwat
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Posted: 17:52 - 13 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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ah its going to go down like that,, that friday thing
How do you learn if you dont DO? or if you mention something stuck on you get useless replies? 
Roads are dry here.. weather nice. |
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| arry |
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arry
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| bhinso |
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bhinso
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| Posted: 18:07 - 13 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans
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| notabikeranym... |
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notabikeranym...
Formerly known as
meef
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
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Posted: 18:40 - 13 Mar 2020  Post subject: |
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Here's what I wish someone told me when I was dicking about without a clue in my first 2 years of riding.
1. Ride within limits even when pushing it, don't just send it and hope for the best.
2. Only push limits once you've practiced the theory you've fully grasped through independent research.
3. It really isn't the weather for it. I'm taking it easy until the roads can stay dry longer than a week and the weather doesn't dip below double digits in the evenings. Wait till summer, 20 odd degrees, get some sticky rubber, go to track a couple times, it'll all make sense.
4. Until you're comfortable hitting the limits of steering and can idk maybe comfortably get your knee down, don't try fucking about with chicanes on public roads. Save that for the track. You're en route to a big old highside.
Also the reason there is such a stark a contrast between track and road is because road riding is actually far more difficult to do quickly without dying.
I'm not talking about traffic, although that is another major reason you shouldn't dick about on public roads until you know exactly how your bike behaves at those speeds/split seconds. The most important factor is the fact that the amount of available traction on a public road is not constant, whereas it is on track.
You should learn to get decent at these skills on track first before going faster on public roads because public roads have a whole host of other variables.
When you're busy under or overshooting bends on public roads, and having to dab the brakes or let off the throttle, you don't actually know how much brake or throttle you can safely modulate half the time without risking washing out.
Road surfaces are better in summer with sticky tyres. Trackdays where you repeatedly do laps on the same bends to learn the limits of your bike/improve your speed within each session, this is the best way to learn transferable skills that will make you a faster rider.
Or you can wobble around like a tit and nearly bin it a couple times and get lucky like I did until you're somewhat competent (do as I say not as I do). |
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| Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Posted: 18:49 - 13 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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| Meef wrote: | Here's what I wish someone told me when I was dicking about without a clue in my first 2 years of riding.
1. Ride within limits even when pushing it, don't just send it and hope for the best.
2. Only push limits once you've practiced the theory you've fully grasped through independent research.
3. It really isn't the weather for it. I'm taking it easy until the roads can stay dry longer than a week and the weather doesn't dip below double digits in the evenings. Wait till summer, 20 odd degrees, get some sticky rubber, go to track a couple times, it'll all make sense.
4. Until you're comfortable hitting the limits of steering and can idk maybe comfortably get your knee down, don't try fucking about with chicanes on public roads. Save that for the track. You're en route to a big old highside.
Also the reason there is such a stark a contrast between track and road is because road riding is actually far more difficult to do quickly without dying.
I'm not talking about traffic, although that is another major reason you shouldn't dick about on public roads until you know exactly how your bike behaves at those speeds/split seconds. The most important factor is the fact that the amount of available traction on a public road is not constant, whereas it is on track.
You should learn to get decent at these skills on track first before going faster on public roads because public roads have a whole host of other variables.
When you're busy under or overshooting bends on public roads, and having to dab the brakes or let off the throttle, you don't actually know how much brake or throttle you can safely modulate half the time without risking washing out.
Road surfaces are better in summer with sticky tyres. Trackdays where you repeatedly do laps on the same bends to learn the limits of your bike/improve your speed within each session, this is the best way to learn transferable skills that will make you a faster rider.
Or you can wobble around like a tit and nearly bin it a couple times and get lucky like I did until you're somewhat competent (do as I say not as I do). |
Very helpful advice thankyou. The track is on my list of to do's. Im so used to the shit weather I get carried away when it looks and feels nice out. I wasnt going super fast, trying to stay in a comfy limit.
But, when flicking from one bend to the opposite it was just to new. Which a track day will help with.
But really appreciate the detailed positive feedback.. cheers |
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans
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| Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Posted: 19:11 - 13 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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"bastard by name..... lol[/quote]
Dont get me wrong, it happens to us all.
I've puckered up so hard due to the back end getting a bit loose that I've had to use a crowbar to get the bike seat back out from between my arse cheeks.[/quote]
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 19:44 - 13 Mar 2020  Post subject: |
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So you rolled off?
Object lesson there then. Roll off, front dives, rear unloads.
On the plus side, the extra loading could also have made the front wash-out, then you'd have been in trouble. I believe the accepted technique if that happens is "Shut your eyes and gas-it.".
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| Easy-X |
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Easy-X
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Posted: 23:21 - 13 Mar 2020  Post subject: |
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Bends? Try the Scilly Isles at fair speed:
https://i.imgur.com/l5jl9Bx.png
So swing left, bend right, bend right, swing left. Super satisfying if you get it right Bit quieter tonight when I got back, much easier with some speed.... and both lanes 
Twist of the Wrist, why haven't you read/watched this yet?!
Game changer! Rolling off the throttle even slightly is bad. Gradual roll-on, even an ity-bit, is much better. Even completely static throttle isn't too bad as the bike will slow on its own due to air friction and rolling resistance. Easiest way to look at it is any drop of engine output = braking and braking mid-corner = bad. Set speed and gear entering the corner, gradual roll on, exit corner = give it the beans.
The consecutive bends in your piccy would just be a pause on the throttle roll-on as you swap directions. Easy to say, does take practice of course!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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| Undinist |
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Undinist
Nearly there...
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Posted: 00:12 - 14 Mar 2020  Post subject: |
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My top tip is to look far ahead to where you want to be and stop looking at the verge. Works wonders. Do this and your speed and confidence will gradually improve. (Works with skiing too.)
Make sure you know how to work out good lines, otherwise you'll be looking at the wrong places.
Keep reminding yourself to change road position in order to extend your view. The best road line is the safest one, usually the one with the best view. Sometimes this happens to be the same as the racing line, but often it isn't...depends on the corner and whether there are hedges etc. blocking the view.
When a car is ahead, don't stare at its bumper, look far ahead to where you want to be.
Also, relax. No tense shoulders. Do the chicken exercise while holding the bars, waggling your elbows up and down.
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Current bike: K1100RS. Previous: CD200, GSX250, GT550, VFR750, K100LT, K1100LT, R1100GS, R1150GS, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, RSV Mille, MV F4 750S, R1, ZX-10, KTM Adventure 950S |
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
Trackday Trickster
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| Posted: 10:35 - 14 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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| Easy-X wrote: | Bends? Try the Scilly Isles at fair speed:
https://i.imgur.com/l5jl9Bx.png
So swing left, bend right, bend right, swing left. Super satisfying if you get it right Bit quieter tonight when I got back, much easier with some speed.... and both lanes
Twist of the Wrist, why haven't you read/watched this yet?!
Game changer! Rolling off the throttle even slightly is bad. Gradual roll-on, even an ity-bit, is much better. Even completely static throttle isn't too bad as the bike will slow on its own due to air friction and rolling resistance. Easiest way to look at it is any drop of engine output = braking and braking mid-corner = bad. Set speed and gear entering the corner, gradual roll on, exit corner = give it the beans.
The consecutive bends in your piccy would just be a pause on the throttle roll-on as you swap directions. Easy to say, does take practice of course! |
Ive seen the twist of the wrist before, but so much sinks in some doesnt. it was called something else on youtube though.
I can see your right, i was at a constant speed on that so not rolling on as such, so an error there to start with. track day and practice needed, i wasnt going silly fast either as wasnt sure.
that map looks immense |
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| seeyalater |
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seeyalater
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| kgm |
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kgm
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| Posted: 10:58 - 14 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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| Leearchertog wrote: | i was at a constant speed on that so not rolling on as such, so an error there to start with
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You want to be cornering at a constant speed. This is when the bike is most stable, you only start accelerating when the bend starts to open up and you start to lift the bike back up.
You want to add throttle as you enter the bend to counter drag forces which will cause the bike to slow down otherwise. You add throttle to keep your speed constant.
So you set your corner speed before you enter the bend, lean it over, add a little throttle to maintain speed and then accelerate as you bring the bike back up at the other end. If you're able to comfortably accelerate all the way around the bend you could probably have entered faster.
As others have said though the road is not the place for max rate turns. Always have a reserve as you never know what will be around that bend, it's rare you can see all the way around a bend on the road and road surfaces change constantly.
The golden rule for the road is always be able to stop in the distance that you can see.
I assume you are already familiar with limit points and know to keep a wide line rather than a racing line for the best view (road surface and other hazards allowing of course).
Even limits points are only a guide, there are times when you want to be more cautious than the limit point suggests - extend your observations beyond the bend, for example if you can see the roof of a farmhouse or building beyond the bend you know you can expect an entrance road, so you want to be cautious on that bend rather than blasting around at v max so that you don't plough into the tractor that's turning onto the road. Road signs might indicate a junction on a bend, so you want to be cautious of vehicles turning right across your path. Likewise chevron markers at the start of a bend often indicate that it tightens up midway around, so allow more than your limit point suggests in these scenarios. At high speeds you need to find your own observational cues as roadsigns on their own often aren't enough when travelling quickly.
It's hard work to keep up observations like that but you should be able to before you go scudding about on the road. The track really is the best place to learn your bikes handling limits. |
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| Easy-X |
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Easy-X
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| Posted: 11:40 - 14 Mar 2020 Post subject: |
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| kgm wrote: | So you set your corner speed before you enter the bend, lean it over, add a little throttle to maintain speed and then accelerate as you bring the bike back up at the other end. If you're able to comfortably accelerate all the way around the bend you could probably have entered faster. |
This is the only area where I thought Twist of the Wrist was weak: it's all very nice to say "set your speed" but how do you know what that speed is? On a track that's straightforward: you go round a few times and learn the track. On a public highway you may be travelling a road you've never seen before and never will again. Then it comes down to experience - assessing bents and the required speed by eye. Always err on the side of caution!
<addendum> And yes, an ever so slight increase in throttle is ideal, to counter forces, etc. and maintain speed. I just want to drive home that slackening off the throttle can have quite a dramatic effect and is to be avoided!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 37 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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