VanVan, Grass Tracker, TW 125/200

[Freddierf85]

Hi All,

I've searched high and low before posting, but can only find scraps of relevant information. Please help with your wisdom!

I'm 34, needing a commuter bike because my wife needs the car with our first child. So I'll be doing approx. 30 miles per day, 5 days a week. I'll do my A2 test, and don't need anything more so please don't suggest the DAS!

I need something super reliable (I'm a teacher, so mechanic ability very limited!), budget ideally £2,000 maybe slightly more at a push. I really don't care about speed or racing ability - classic style and reliability for me please!

I don't want something boring or generic. I love the look of:

Suzuki Van van 125 or 200
Yamaha TW 125
Suzuki Grass Tracker TU250
Kawasaki 250TR
Honda FTR223

I know the Kawasaki and Honda are both only available as imports, so this may rule them out in terms of price/finding parts?

Anything else that has similar style, I'm all ears.

Help and suggestions massively appreciated!

Cheers,

Freddie

[Riejufixing]

[Tdibs]

Hi, I had a VanVan125 as my first bike so I can shed some light on that one a little.

Its a well build (in Japan) and very reliable little machine with not much to go wrong with it. Small tank, but £6 of petrol used to last me the week. Its got a super comfy big bench seat (also quite low, very easy to flat foot). Big wide bars, but still small enough to filter. Very easy going bike. The large seat and usually a rack as standard means its very easy to strap extra luggage down to it also.

The only 'downside' to it, is its fairly slow, flat out is about 65ish. Up a steep hill 55. But its not a highly strung thing, so not going to go pop anytime soon. Also very easy to work on.

The large tyres are a bit odd feeling at full lean but handle just fine as long as you dont try to push it to its limits.

There is a pretty helpful forum for them also.

Somewhere around 2007 or 8 they switched from carbs to fuel injection also.

My main concern would be the nature of the commute. If its any motorway involved, I would just outright go for any of the bikes with a larger motor as its out of its comfort zone there.

I would also advice actually going for the DAS rather than A2, just because its exactly the same test, doing the DAS now means you dont have to spend a whole load of extra money if you decide you do want a larger machine (which im sure you actually will :p)
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Previous : 09 Vanvan 125| 02' Sv650s || Current: 1999 Xj600n | 1992 DR650 RSE | 2005 Fazer 1000

[Teflon-Mike]

Start at the beginning.

A2 vs 'DAS'... DAS is the Direct Access Scheme, which is the route top a full, Ride What You Like A entitlement licence, without waiting out the 2 years from 17 to 19 to be old enough to do A2 or the two more years, having passed A2 tp be eligible to do RWWYL 'A' via DAS.

Ie, you are over 25, it matters little. Tests are exactly the same and with most schgools even the bike you do them on are the same, for A2 or RWYL 'A', all thats different is they may plug in a diferent engine black box to 'restrict' a bike to be elibible for an A2 test.

Ergo... you have four options:

1/ Do 'just' CBT to validate provisional entitlement and ride a 125 for up to 2 years, on L-Plates

2/ Do CBT; Which you HAVE to do to do any other training anyway.... but, do CBT, yjhen carry on, get a 125, ride it a bit on L-Plates, then when you feel; up to it, self book and take A1 tests, for an A1 - 125 'only' entitlement.

3/ Do DAS..... for A2.. which if you are old enough to do DAS for RWYL 'A' via 3/ is pretty pointless. See 4/

4/ Do DAS. if over 25 y/o for a ride what you like 'A' licence. As said, tests are exactly the same, and for RWYL'A' vs A2, likely even the exact same bike.

Of the options; well CBT and L's is cheap and easy... or down and dirty and DANGEROUSE depending on which way you look at it.

DAS courses tend to lok expensive, at around £1000 a course. If you break that down and take out the cost of bike hire to do the course, actually it's not... but you are a teacher, you should know about being under paid and under valued an d sypathise...

However, IF you are competent and confident enough to take top the roads on two wheels on ANYTHING... you damn well should be competent and confident enough to do the tests to prove it.... if not do you really think that its a great idea NOT to, and try dodging tests just doing CBT, which is your intro lesson?

If competent and confident, then A1 on your own 125 has the merit, it can be accomplished fairly fast and its cheap to do, self booked, on your own bike... but going it alone trying to teach yourself to ride, often DONT prove so cheap when you have to start buying touch up pens and new handlebars to repoair drop-damage.... you have been warned....

Suggestion then begs a DAS course, and the full Monty RWYL one for full 'A' entitlement, as its as expensive either which way, and should give you the know how, whatever bike you may get at the end.

Which is a worthy point; its a 'Full' motorcycle licence, not a 'big bike' licence. Yopu can choose to ride a 125 or whatever on RWYL'A' as easily as anything else; No one says just cos you have passed tests that allow you to ride a 1300cc mega-macine, you actualluy have to.. same as the fact that just 'cos you have opassed a car test you 'have' to go get a Ferarri to make it worth the doing.. you can just drive a Ford Fiesta!!!

WHICH all throws the matter rather open, and back to top; before you worry about a BIKE you need woprry about a BIUKE-LICENCE... and a crash hat, and wet weathr wear, and where to put your lunch etc etc etc.... What bike, is pretty much the LAST thing you need fret about, NOT the first... and what you might look like?! Ha-Ha!

Lets dispel that one from the start... you will look like a PRATT! (at least to 99% the population!) A half drowned on in UK weather, most of the time... and that is to them that even bother to look! And most, peculiarly the ones that should, dont pat much attension ANYWAY.. hey school teacher! Wake up at the back there!!! Do your pupils pay as much attention as you'd like? So why the heck do you expect other drivers might?

Most bnike acdcidents are whats known as SMIDSY's or 'Sporry Mate, I Didn't See You'.. foplk really dont look, or if they do, pat much attension.... so what you look like, or what you THINK you look like, really dont make bog all odds!

Back to bikes.

Go book a coursee.

Get a licence.. preferabl;y a Ride What You Like 'A'

Lean a little along the way.

Then go buy whatever you like, really.

30 miles a day? 5 days per? 33 weeks a year?

Honmda Dullville springs instantly to mind. 600cc, about 50bhp, low (note LOW not NO) maintenence shaft drive; pretty good MPG, reasonable insurance, its an easy to love with two wheeled 'car', you need DO-DAS ti ride..... and is suggested bench-mark tio rate alternatives, bigger or smaller, any of which you may ride on a DAS obtained RWYL'A' licence...

But THAT getting to grips with and actually getting a bike licence is where you should start.. not worrying about what bike might attract most teens in the play-ground!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Freddierf85]

Hi Guys, thanks for the advice.

Tdibs, I won't be doing any motorway riding on my commute, so the Van Van's limited top speed isn't a worry for me.

Van van is currently my front-runner but just wanted thoughts on the other, similar looking Japanese bikes I'd mention (Yamaha TW 125 , Suzuki Grass Tracker TU250, Kawasaki 250TR, Honda FTR223) some of which would require more than an A1 licence.


I agree, the logical thing to do would be the DAS. I thought the A2 was easier/cheaper but if that's not the case then I'll just stick to the A1 and a 125cc.

Teflon-Mike thanks for such a detailed response. All very valid and appreciated. However don't get too hung up on thinking I'm worried about what other people think (not sure that's what I wrote?!). But I do care about what my bike looks like, who doesn't? And as for getting my licence first and then looking at bikes, come on - of course I am interested in researching bikes, it's exiting and I imagine 99% of people on here enjoy hunting for their next purchase! Not a lot else to do during Corona lock down...

All advice welcome, especially on the models above and whether Jap (grey) imports are too risky when it comes to maintenance. Cheers

[stinkwheel]

As a left of field. Just because I like the brand, I'm pretty sure the whole Royal Enfield rage of motorcycles is A2 compliant.

They are currently making 2 offroad styled machines. The Himalayan and the 500 trials.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Freddierf85]

Stinkwheel - yes, thank you, I had checked out the RE Himalayan. Very mixed reviews, but again, the speed isn't an issue for me so it could be a god option. Just need to wait a while for some second hand ones to come up costing closer to the £2000 Mark!

[stinkwheel]

A totally different style, but the 535 continental GTs are looking like a cracking second hand buy at the moment.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Freddierf85]

About £2k more than my budget though!

[kolu]

Hey Freddie,
as your first bike buy something as cheap as possible. Because you will (the best case) lay it down at least once. Whatever Japanese will be okay, even Korean bikes aren't so bad (like my Hyosung - the build quality is okay, it just rusts). I've put my bike down already two times (forgot sidestand, one almost collision followed by hard brake at lean = just lay it down). I would be pissed to damage anything more expensive, and you probably as well.
After year or so, when you have more experience riding, get something nice.

[P.]

I really wish they made the Yamaha XTW250.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/crash.net/visordown.com/styles/amp_1200/s3/field/image/44128.jpg

I like the TW and the VanVan but I still think oddities like the TNT125 and MSX125 are as wild as you get whilst being cheap.

[The Shaggy D.A.]

[Freddierf85]

That XTW 250 is the dream! Anything like that actually available to buy

[Riejufixing]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Freddierf85]

[Ok Mike I'll do the dam RWYL 'A'. Happy? Killing my dreams!

[dynax]

If you want to go A1 then go that way, that is the way i'm going as i don't need or want to ride anything bigger, bollox to other peoples opinions, do what is the best way for you
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Mike.
Bikes: Xena, Bridget,Florence
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmihUc0xXxYbR4_0l-F1FzA/videos?view_as=subscriber

[wr6133]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kentol750]

Having given this type of info/advice on a number of occasions, I would suggest something like this: do CBT, ride around getting comfortable with it, book a theory test, pass that then do the a1 on your 125. If you get this done in 3-4 months into the life of your theory test, you could then spend a year on the 125 deciding whether to go for a bigger bike or not, leaving you a good 8 months to get the full A. If you decided not to go for A, you'd not have spent money on training or a course you didn't need.
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Some bikes.

[dynax]

[Kentol750]

Dynax, you miss my point. And you cannot put l plates on an a2 bike without an approved instructor.
Why go A2 and spend money on test not needed. Over 24 then this is a cheaper option. If you go from a1 to full A you still need a valid theory. A theory, mod 1 and mod 2 on the a1 bike is cheaper than renewing a CBT in a lot of places now.
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Some bikes.

[Freddierf85]

Thanks for all the further insight guys.

I agree that the DAS looks logical, but it boils down to money and time vs whether my 30 miler per day commute would require more than a 125. If a 125 is likely to struggle doing 30 miles per day, then it may be worth investing now and getting a slightly more powerful bike that won't struggle at 40/50mph...

How would a Van Van cope with that mileage?

Teflon Mike, don't fret, theory is booked and I've made contact with a course provider... Now let me enjoy researching the vehicles without getting a grilling from you!

[pepperami]

[Kentol750]

Wife used to commute from Gloucester to Stroud on a van van. About 10 miles each way up some really steep hills... not a problem.
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Some bikes.