New bike choice and license type

[smithcd]

Hi all

I was planning (pre corona) to take by CBT and get a 125 probably Japanese bike to commute 35 miles each way dual carriageway @ 60mph. I am 36, 6ft, and 16 stone with a car license but wanted a change from my Seat Diesel car.
Now the world has closed down I have more time to contemplate my options.

I am starting from scratch, no gear or bike. I don’t really want to fork out £900-£1000 for my DAS plus gear and bike if I don’t take to biking. Would a 125cc cope with 45mins every day each way at high rpm (60mph ish). If so are there any recommendations? No budget in mind for the bike since they aren’t too pricey. New/ pre owned, any particular engine type sohc/dohc that would cope better and be reliable and lastly the actual bike, fairing/visor/ frame size.

I’m good with a wrench and will keep up with maintenance

I’m not after the latest R1 replica just an honest, reliable bike.

If I like riding, my plan was to Do my DAS in 12 months.

Any help would be great

Thanks!

[ThatDippyTwat]

Pretty much most bikes will almost invariable be either SOHC (10ish BHP)or DOHC (15ish BHP) singles. Hyosung's V-Twins being notable exceptions.

The Yamaha YBR125 will do 60, maintain it (With regular servicing) and both the bikes and spares/service parts are readily available.

With *any* 125, regular oil/filter changes (or strainer cleanouts) are the key to a long life.
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Andy_Pagin]

For commuting a YBR125 will be fine, I used to do a 40 mile each way commute on one, bit slow up the steep Chiltern hills, but so would any 12hp bike be.
____________________
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Teflon-Mike]

As I read that, my eye-borws rose.. and didn't come down... now keeping the bald spot warm I think.

Oh-Kay.... 30-35 miles. EACH WAY!?

A 70 mile a day commute? THAT aint going to be pleasant whatever you try doing it on/in.... have you thought about moving/getting another job? Seriously, at average traffic speeds or about 30mph, that's a good couple of hours a day, before/after you get to work, just in the travel, paying fot the hassle and expense rather than being paid for it. Worth some thought.

More up, easy to think that a bike's going to be 'cheap' cos of the book MPG compared to a car.... it may be, but factor in the fact that the book quoted MPG is pretty mythical... books quote 90 to over 100mg for my 125, they quote just 45mpg for my 750, where in reality I get around 80 to the gallon from either.. then factor in the rest of the running costs.... Tyres for the 750 are about £200 a pair up, and they last maybe 3-5ooo miles. For the 125, they cost about £100 a pair, and I have no idea how long they last, I have yet to wear a pair out! 15-20ooo miles or so?

Anyway, the point is its all too easy to nievely believe that a bike 'must' some-how be cheaper than a car.. but.... often not the case, especially if you factor in the all-up costs.

A-N-D... 350 miles a week? Err.. yeah... most 125's need an oil change every 1000 miles and more significant service checks every 2ooo or so. You suggest you are not averse to spanners, Oh-Kay.. but that sort of mileage begs being particularly careful of your pre-ride checks (You'll learn more about them on CBT), and a good going over the bike doing bits and pieces of routine maintenance, not just showing it a wet rag and bucket, but tensioning and oiling the chain, and control cables, and checking tyres and oil and changing when necessary, perhaps, esp for a newby, probably an hour or so a week... when you going to do that? In the week, on top of your four hours a day commuting? Or on a Saturday when misus wants you to go to IKEA? Its all tiume, its all money, and not part of the primia-facia plan, where you proibably 'think' its like your car and use and ignore until something stops working, then give it a fella on the industrial estate... Andits only DIYong that will find some ecconomies in there, cos if you use a paid mechanic at that sort of mileage, routine maintenance is going to rack up fast and dent potential savinjgs quite hard.

Back to the plan.... plan here is to 'save' training costs... by not doing any. Hmmmm.... how much do you like your skin?

This doesn not sound like a particularly wonderful plan from the off. May be legal. Maybe the way a lot of folk go about.. But its probably STILL not all that smart.

Motorcycles are THE statistically most dangerouse form of transport. And L-Plates are for 'LEARNERS' not test dodgers. Idea behind them is that you might go get a bike, and ride around quiet streets for a bit, getting the basics until you are ready for test. It's called the school of hard knocks... and believe me, on a bike, then knocks come hard.

Back to the economics a second.... looks a good way to go to save money, if you know no better.... but... factor in spilled petrol, from the bike falling over, dented petrol tanks, bent handle bars and broken brake and clutch levers... you scoff? Well, when I instructed I didn't stuff a spare brake lever and a screwdriver in my back pocket for decoration you know! Chit happens.. and on a bike, with a numpty-newbie aboard it happens A-LOT! But, the cost of even pretty incidental 'minor' crash damage, is often quite high, and soon dent this idea that you are some-how 'saving'the training costs to learn how not to crash! Now factor in the pain.... and a bit more.. pushing bent bike home, or having to call for err nibs to com ghet you and the bike, with the car...

Oh-Kay... 35miles each way a day. Well, it's pushing a two hour commute.... thats 1/4 he time I;d expect to be at work, on top of work. And its in the most fraught riding conditions there are, other steering wheel gnawing commuters NOT looking out for bikes....

And you think its a good idea to take them on every day with no more than the scantest first intro riding lesson?

Back to the economics.... Minimal legal required riding wear for a motorbike is just a crash hat. Which you may be able to buy for as little as £20. More likely though £80. Add a pair of gloves that you'd be expected to have for CBT, and you are looking at another £30 or more. Add a jacket, and cos this be Britain, a water-proof over suit, and some sturdy shoes of boots... and to tog up; you are looking at he thick end of £500... how much was that DAS course again, btw? Starting to look a drop in the ocean isn't it?

And food for thunk; a crash hat is good for ONE crash, then it needs throwing away. Training is for LIFE. and more you put into it, and the more you use it, better it gets. Never wears out, of looses value, it just gets better the more you use it... is this REALLY the place to be looking to make savings?

ADVICE:-

RUSHING BE FAST WAY TO PAIN ON TWO WHEELS

The idea of a bike gels, but you dont know whether you'll take to it. Some dont. Most do, and many get far too enthusiastic about it far too fast.

BUT, a CBT course, including bike hire to do it on, costs around £150. Most schools will offer some basic riding wear for the course, like hat and gloves. But it is nicer to wear your own. A cheap hat, as said, might only cost from £20, a pair of gloves another £20, a water-poof oversuitr, maybe another £20... SO, not rushing or getting ahead of yourself, you can go do CBT, for around £200. Find out IF you actually can hack this biking malarky, more is you are perverse enough to actually enjoy it.. and learn a thing or three along the way, like whether you WANT to take it further.

Like I said, even pretending to be a Learner on L's and a 125 is likely a lot of dosh to spend... and upfront. IF biking can save you any money, u the grander scheme, after doing CBT and togging up, and buying, insuring and taxing a bike.... the cost of a DAS course is pretty much small potatoes, and in for a penny, in for a pound, why NOT get that training? Cost of crash damage it's likely to save is likely to pay for everything else, long before mythical mpg benefits pay for your water-proofs... trust me!

If all goes to plan on CBT, you'll likely be throwing credit cards around like confett, to sign up for a DAS course, at the end. If no? Well you are a couple of hundred quyid worse off, and a lot better clued up on what you DON'T want as much as what you do....

And you MAY choose to ride out a while on L's.... and MAYBE even when you are competent and confident enough, to take test, consider that commute on a Learner-bike... B~U~T advice where is, IF you are competent and confident enough to tackle the daily commute, in typical commuter conditions, you ?DAMN well aught to be competent and confident enough to take the tests and NOT have to do it on L's....

And IF a 125 is 'enough' to get you to and from work... and many 125's are as fast as ANY cc bike is legally allowed to go in this country... well, an A1 -125cc 'only' licence, you might test for without the hassles or costs of goiing through a school, could suit... but, where is the learning going to come from? Falling off in the school of hard knocks, or from a teacher so you don't have to do the tumbling?

Brings us bak around to doing a course, and one that gives you an unrestrictecd licence at the end, which likely pays for itself in the cash savings of all the crash damage you DONT have to fix.. let alone the hassles and pain you dodge... but your call

Change thought process, and dont diminish the value of the bike training, you'd like to dodge the costs of. Remember, in the all up cost of getting to the road it is but a drop ion the ocean.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[smithcd]

Wow thanks for the responses guys... especially Teflon-Mike.
Sorry but maybe I didn’t portray my intentions very well. I already do the commute in a Seat Leon diesel it’s an easy 45 minute drive at 60mph.

I’m not in it to save money, I want some experience to decide whether to do my DAS in 12 months with experience under my belt. I don’t want to spend best part of £5-6k only to find riding doesn’t suit me.

The costs and maintenance you mentioned don’t really show the bike to be designed for this kind of intense use. Like you say, lubing cables and checking chains and pads etc, but oil changes every 1000 would be once every 2- 2 1/2 weeks in the summer months.

The plan eventually would be to have a Tracer 700 but it’s a big outlay and I don’t really think going straight to the DAS with no experience would be a good idea

[Andy_Pagin]

Teff, I averaged a genuine 110mpg on my YBR125, and that's riding in far from ideal conditions.
____________________
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Teflon-Mike]

You want to ride a motorbike. FINE. You DO NOT need to justify that or have any other reason other than that you WANT to do it.

So go learn to ride a motorbike!!!

Do your CBT see how you get on.

WHEN you have done your CBT and learned a thing or three, that is what it is for, after all... THEN decide what to do next.. and you STILL dont need any more reason to ride a motorbike than you want to!

Heck! There are folk that spend thousands to go horse riding and buy and stable a horse, they DO NOT try riding the dang nag to the chuffing office every day!

[ThatDippyTwat]

[smithcd]

Erm... thanks Teflon. I think you might have got my intentions all wrong.

With the country in lockdown, this is the perfect time for me to get my plans right. I am here for advice from people who know infinitely more about biking than I do and I will be taking everyone’s comments on board.

Im not trying to cheat the license system, I’m not trying to cut corners to save money. I am merely trying to find out the best way to get an introduction to the freedom of riding and away from the sterility of car driving.

If I can outlay £600 on kit, £400 on insurance and £2-3k on a bike then I’d be happy to plod on my 6am commute with quiet roads at 60mph and gain some experience and mileage under my belt before a advance to a bigger machine.

So are you saying I’d be better to leave it another 12 months, save up the extra £900 to do my DAS course and go straight onto a bigger machine?

I won’t be doing anything this year I doubt with the lockdown. There’s no chance I can go out soon for a CBT, look at bike or kit so I’m just looking for advice to plan for when the world is right again.

If an oil change on a 125cc is only a 45 min job once every couple of weeks and regular greasing and visual checks every ride. That would be no hardship for me. I won’t have the bike as my sole transport but I do love getting the spammers out

I’m open to all your wisdom

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh-Kay... I think I 'get' your intentions here....
You're BORED!
And think that 'planning' might alleviate some of that boredom...

The Best laid plans of mice and men... as they say... oft go awry.

First up; the CBT is your start-point. Has to be done to validate provisional entitlement to ride anything. Its as the course title 'Compulsory BASIC Training', and you don't need anything before you start.. just book a course, maybe get some basic gear sorted, turn up and do.

IF, and here and now that remains an 'IF'.. you like it, you can then, with the learning instilled by the course, decide first IF you want to go any further, is so how.

Like I said, you don't learn to swim by jumping in a pond and trying not to drown THEN go get lessons.... you do the lessons FIRST.

So go get the first lesson, and take it from there. You are, in short over-bludy-thinking the matter!

During or after CBT; you will either be all fired up about the deal, that a 125 wont warrant any more consideration, and you will 'have' to do DAS to get whatever wonder-wheel;s have sparked your imagination, OR you will be underwhelmed, and sore and just nbot want to carry on. Or any thing in-between.....

B~U~T until you have done a CBT you wont know....

And all your plans are likely to be wasted.

So.. you need plan no further than booking a CBT.

THAT IS ALL you need fret about at the moment.

After? Well, if you want to carry on, just like learning to drive a car, fly a plane, or ski down a hill.. lessons are a pretty good idea... BUT here and now is that you are SPECULATING on how you think you may progress, when you haven't got a clue... yet.. go do CBT!

AND, You DID start by quite ardently dismissing Lessons, on he grounds that you didn't want to PAY for them....didn't you?

Do CBT, fond out if you actually can and LIKE riding a motorbike... take it from there.... and be prepared to PAY.

Like most interests, bikes will consume as much money as you let them, plus a bit. And the training costs are a spit in the ocean of even the least you might get away with.. and CBT is a cost you cant dodge, so factor it in, and IF you take to it... well its money you;d have to spend any-way... if not its o huge loss, like buying a bike, gear and a years insurance!

So, you need no more plan, here and no than to go book a CBT!

Lock-down may pall, but he-ho, such is life! There's m,any things that are curtailed by it..your ambitions are not the only ones! BUT, no use making infinitesimal plans that you are never likely to see through, are probably wrong, if you can, and get adapted, probably badly to make best use of whatever you have don in them up till they change!

You want wisdom?

Research local schools that offer CBT.... fond out when they will start offering courses again, and how much they charge, and what gear they recommend you have when you turn up... but, probably most importantly, what the catering arrangements usually are, and whether you will need a packed lunch and drinks.

Everything else, at this point is incidental. Stop planning your life away, as said, the best laid plans of mice and men... ALL you need plan is CBT.. and if/when you get around to it, take it from there.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[terrytibbs]

[Bhud]

Tef and the reactions to Tef are among the highlights of this forum.

He has a point: having a full licence won't hurt - once you've got one, you can still ride a 125 and save money on fuel on your commute by riding a 125. Doing a DAS would, normally, have no downside and lots of upside.

In these crappy times, unfortunately, nobody can get a full licence on DAS, as all the test centres are closed for the foreseeable future. So if you're stuck on a 125, it could be as good as it gets, for now.

Experience on a 125 on the roads at the moment will be nothing like what it was before the UK was broken, in the days pre-Covid-19. If you're riding a 125 around right now, it's like riding a bike in America, on those huge, empty roads. Dealing with the traffic during rush hour before lockdown used to be a serious business: it was learning to swim by jumping in the deep end of the pool. That isn't to say you couldn't do it. It's just that it limits the usefulness of your time on a 125 right now. If you want to commute on a bike right away, go ahead and do it. Why not? But, as for choosing a bike, minus a licence and a functioning normal society, and being limited to a 125, it will not be like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwg2eRyrOW8

It's a case of, if you really want a 125, do a CBT and just get "whatever".

[bhinso]

If you are seeking a licence and have any age restrictions then talk to Tef. By the time you've read his reply the age restrictions will no longer apply

[Eddie Hitler]

Jesus christ I forgot about the epic Teflon replies..

A 125 would cope but I'm not sure I personally would. I do (well, not at the moment obviously) an 80 mile round trip for work daily. On a 125 I would get tired of working the gearbox constantly, lack of power, weather protection etc. A larger engine just means you can relax and be a little more lazy.

You don't need an R1 replica. The Honda cb500 for example would be a great start.

I'm honestly not sure how licensing works these days. You're only few years older than me but if you're responsible enough jumping on a 500/600 as a first bike wouldn't be an issue.

I would imagine if you started on a 125 you wouldn't get on with biking and just fob it off before you considered doing your DAS. I honestly wouldn't blame you. That's my crappy insight so don't read too much into it. .

[Easy-X]

I only do a 15 mile round trip to my works and it was within 3 weeks of doing the CBT that the limits of a 125 really sunk in. Cruising around suburban roads at 30mph is fine but for long journeys you need something with a bit more heft. That and 60mph is close to the limit on most 125s. You always want to ride using six tenths of the bike...
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[smithcd]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Once the lockdown is done with, I’ll get my CBT done and take it from there! You have all been a great help thank you!

[Ryder666]

As a current 125 commuter doing 30mile round trips its not fun , 80% of the time you are pinned in top just to make progress and try and keep the cagers off your back tire on the nsl roads, also the poor thing is just not happy doing it, where it does get fun is the twisty long route home on 40/50mph roads where you can really learn how to ride the bike rather than hang on with it pinned. I'm at 6 months of being on the 125 this time and I have my theory booked for the 2nd as I am utterly fed up with thrashing the crap out of the bike.

Do do your cbt, Im definitely for getting a 125 just don't expect to love the commute on it, it's not a lot of fun and I'm not even using dual carriage ways! Go out on weekends or evenings on some no pressure rides and really figure out if you want to get a big bike. My wife did her cbt as she loved the idea of a bike but in reality didn't get on with it at all and then only rode on the roads twice afterwards.

Best of luck mate and I hope you love it

Tom

[davebike]

OK I am far from a novice but commute 20+ miles each way on a 125 from choice (got an FZ600 and a 650 Mt03 as well)

By choice I do not use the A road route to work a little longer in distance and time mix of b and c class roads less stressful about 3/4 of an hour less with no traffic at moment

But the thing is good kit is essential for safety and for comfort!

Training makes it easer I taught at basic and advanced driving a car gives little ! Sometimes it is a hindrance

My Advice do a CBT on their bike if you hate it you will know !
Training like CBT is almost try before you buy

Then sadly you need to spend at least mid priced jacket trousers boots gloves and helmet

A used JAP 125 that there is a dealer you can access
you will almost certainly fall off and need parts!
____________________
Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com