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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 15:03 - 14 Apr 2020 Post subject: Socialism is dead, long live Socialism! |
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Let's start with the premise that 20th Century Socialism is dead, the high ideals buried under a hundred million bodies. Let's get some fresh ideas...
I keep hearing murmurings around "Universal Income" which I can't see working, I don't see how it isn't just a long term recipe for rampant inflation (someone might correct me on this, if you're of a mind to.)
Instead I wonder whether it might be better to re-nationalise certain essential things based on an NHS-style, centrally funded system.
Things like water & sewage. Why this is privately owned when you have no choice of provider? Electricity? Fake private: it all comes from the National Grid, gas is the similar. Telecoms? This is where Labour went a bit mad: there is quite a lot of choice in this segment and best left private although I could see a basic, fixed telephone line being a universal service.
So what I would propose is all power, heating and water to "free" (or rather, centrally managed for the country) for all households and small businesses. Everyone would be allocated a standard amount of resources per year - enough to live, but not extravagant - and only pay if going over that.
On the flip side they'll be machine gun nests just outside the Channel Tunnel and all coast guard and light navel ships will have .50 cals to repel the freeloaders from the borders ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:20 - 14 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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I agree about the services. Power, water, rail, Gas ar all a joke as privatised industries so renationalise them.
Universal income is one of those things that sounds good, involves good ideals (no stigma attached) and could lift large amounts of people out of poverty. The saving in beaurocracy with no need to manage pensions, housing allowance, DHS etc.
The other side is the cost, the implementation and the safety net (or lack) and the fact mpd would be proved right about people heading for the land of milk and honey, unbelievable illegal immigration and asylum seekers.
In my view it would only work if that was it. You got that and nothing else. No further safety nets. No housing allowance, no child allowance. No extra bureaucracy to support you when you were broke because you have just bought a 65" 4k TV and have no money for rent and food. Won't happen though, we don't like seeing beggars at the best of times.
So yes, I agree with you. Whether the populous would agree with the tax burden of course, bearing in mind it's going to have to rise after this virus debacle anyway is moot. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:03 - 14 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | MarJay wrote: | Wrong forum mate. You'll need to don your nosepeg and your tinfoil Fedora and venture into Politics and Current Affairs. |
Perhaps it can be moved? |
I don't mind, I kinda felt it wasn't current events more pipe dream stuff.
With regards to stigma, I think we see that with food vouchers and the like and ppl dislike such things, universal basic income is barely any better. If you give people money you also give them the opportunity to fuck things up. "Free" power and the like well, you don't really have any real choice in the matter: the "capitalist free-market" is illusionary, IMHO.
People will still starve to death through poor choices but OAPs choosing between either heating and food says something's gone wrong. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:15 - 15 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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Nationalised water, electric and gas is obvious. I was doing some skype beers with a couple of mates last week, one French and the other Dutch. The French guy found it hilarious that a giant chunk of UK energy bills go to EDF, which is a state owned French company. The Dutch guy was amazed that the UK government would ever allow such a thing. I explained that it was partly due to EU rules which means any company must be given equal opportunity to tender for contracts. However it doesn't get over the fact that the UK government could have set up its own company and tendered too, with the obvious cost effectiveness that nationalised power entails.
Generally my opinion is that social necessities should be nationalised. Rail, power, water, gas, maybe telecoms, probably all public transport. Also health, police, education, etc. These are all things that keep a nation operating smoothly, and keep the people civilised and prosperous (imagine a country without any of those things being provided to the people, or provided only to the highest bidder - more like the wild west!), so there shouldn't be a "fuck you, you can't have it" attitude to anyone, because that only makes the nation poorer in the long run.
Free markets should exist for commodities and luxuries that are not required for staying alive, i.e. playstations, snazzy sofas, mobile phones, cars.... etc. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Lord Percy |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:18 - 15 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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We talked of putting benefits into a card here, to be used only for necessities, not luxuries. You want to see the shit storm from life’s feckless.
One comment was “its my wages, i’ll spend it on what I want.” ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 09:36 - 16 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: |
Mate of mine used to say that about his dole money when he was 18, 19, 20, 21... can't remember how long he abused it for.
Massive Tory supporter now. |
That tends to happen when work dodgers finally get a job and start paying taxes. Suddenly funding the lifestyle of the feckless seems less appealing.
Lord Percy wrote: | Same goes for my gran. I spent a while not working because I had enough savings to focus on the A-levels I was doing. She kept telling me to sign on to the dole because it was "your right as a British citizen", and "you should take what you can get".
Also a massive Tory supporter.
Funny that. |
What about the other decade you hid away in education? I thought you were a mature student until well into your late 20's, when you couldn't drag it out any longer and needed to enter the adult world of work and taxes?!
Also a massive Labour supporter. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:09 - 16 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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Most of that makes very good sense but the problem is, whatever party, the bits that make good sense come with a lot that is utterly stupid or implausible.
The amount of times that you hear people saying Labour is too far left or Tory is too far right you would think a centrist party would clear up in an election. It hasn't happened for about 100 years though, basically since the Labour party came into being and took most of it's vote. Mind you, it hasn't made the best choice in leaders has it.
To get back to mentalboys statement about the Florida way of a card with credit on it only being valid in certain shops, I cannot see the problem having that. It would be easy to make certain cards valid everywhere, long term disability, OAP and that sort of thing and other only valid in food and energy outlets for those on out of work benefits and surely that is an acceptable condition for having a social security system.
The thing now though is how many people are going to be out of work after this virus shite is over. Money is going to be tight. Taxes will be going up I've no doubt to pay for the lock down protections and there will be less tax from incomes. I reckon we will see people using there cars less as well so less fuel revenue. Once you get in a habit of not using it you see how you didn't need it in the first place.
I reckon it's going to be utter pants for a long time whatever your politics. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:27 - 16 Apr 2020 Post subject: |
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Checking all the points for me: critical of New Labour and the centralised bureaucracy of the EU, dissemination of power back to communities... the only flaw I see is the near total reform of local government from parish to county required. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 348 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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