Jumping in with both feet... vintage/retro/(hipster?) racer

[Poseidon]

I had an old mountain bike, which I was given for free (happened to walk past a guy trying to get it into a skip, asked if I could take it, he said yes). It lasted 7 years of moderate use, but now has some pretty terminal faults, so is once again headed to the skip.

Naturally I now needed another bike. Only, it seems every man and his dog has been out buying a bike. Most of the local bike shops are shut and stock of affordable bikes is non existent (possibly down to the lack of production in the far east I guess).

I ended up in a bike shop that sells second hand bikes. Found a beaut for my lad, but nothing really jumped out at me. Then I spotted an old fashioned racer, a bit like the one I remember my dad having when I was little. Having only ever ridden mountain bikes (despite almost exclusively riding on tarmac), I quite fancied something different. Enquired about the price, which given it was a new arrival and not checked over/refurbished, was very cheap. So cheap, I couldn't resist. My rationale being that I could stick some air in the tyres, rag it until it falls apart, throw it away, by which point hopefully the bicycle industry will have returned to something like normal and I can buy a reasonable bike brand new.


I got the bike home, went to put some air in the tyres and lo and behold, I don't have a pump that fits. Having only owned mountain bikes, the car tyre pump fits them. Not so here. Damn. Best do some research. Unfortunately, the more I read, the more I realise I might have fucked up. Threads on vintage bike forums fill me with dread of seized components, bent/snapped frames etc etc (in particular, the seat post if it seizes in the tube is up there on the "oh shit-o-meter"). I sheepishly head back into my garage to assess the size of my fuck-up. First thing, seat post... Undo the nut, seat moves, post is a perfect fit and looks almost new. Next, handlebars, straight, great condition, grips are pristine, brake levers work smooth and lovely, cables slide freely in their sleeves, the calipers operate exactly as they should. The headstock has no play whatsoever, the handlebars turn freely. Forks and frame look dead straight. Gear levers are mounted on the down-tube, they move smooth as silk as do the cables and derailleurs. Pedals spin freely without any play in the crank. The front wheel is as true as can be, the back is ever so slightly out, but not enough to catch on something 1mm from the rim (certainly truer than any wheel I've ever had on any bike). Frame has a few minor spots of surface rust where stones have chipped the paint, nothing to worry about. In fact, the only area of concern is the wheels. The braking surface on the rims are a bit rusty, so I'm going to set to with various grades of sandpaper and steel wool. I've got two new tyres on the way, the old ones were mismatched and cracking with age. I've also got two new inner tubes and a suitable pump on the way.

It would seem that the bike is in great condition and too good to simply run into the ground. So now the plan is to get it road worthy, get riding it and gradually restore it. The wheels do have a few rust spots on the rims and hub, so will probably replace them at some point. They're 27" x 1 & 1/4" with either 5 or 6speed (I did count them, but forgot) "freewheel" rather than cassette gears (we're getting beyond the level of knowledge I acquired working weekends in a bike shop when I was at school in the late 90s). I reckon there's enough adjustment on the brake calipers to fit 700c wheels in there, but the width may be a problem. I may in the future get the back triangle widened to take more modern wheels.

As you've probably gathered, this is all new to me. The bike is a 1981 Dawes Lightning in blue/light blue. I believe it's the touring version as it has long mudguards and a luggage rack. All the parts are correct and look original. Reading around it seems the lightning was a budget/entry level racer, lots of people out there got one as their first "big bike" and everyone speaks fondly of them. It genuinely brings a smile to my face just thinking about the bike, so I reckon it's going to be a keeper. It'll also serve to fill the void left by the motorbike that I can't bring back from Ireland to restore due to lock down.

Being as new to vintage bicycles as I am, please offer any/all advice, support and ideas. I'm kicking myself I didn't get some pictures before I whipped the wheels off and stripped the tyres etc. I'll post some pictures after the weekend once the wheels etc are back on it.

TL:DR
Bought a 1981 Dawes Lightning racer on a whim. Seems to be in pretty good nick. Want some pointers of vintage bike ownership/ideas for restoration etc.
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[GSTEEL32]

Is 1981 vintage now ?, blimey.... I'm getting old...

These will be bulletproof to be fair, certainly the frame and forks. Assuming your not taking it back to concourse, replacement parts are cheap.

The rims will take a fair amount of corrosion before being considered scrap. I'd keep the chainset original , if you can.

You might want to look at the saddle and get a "traditional" looking sprung unit for comfort...

I went through a similar period last year, where I bought a few early 90's mountain bikes from Raleigh. I'm currently riding around on a 1993 Raleigh Apex in "Burnt Ruby" (that's what we called Pink in the 90's, apparently)

[Poseidon]

[stinkwheel]

That'll do you. Dawes made very functional entry level bikes in their day.

In fairness, if it's all working, treat any corrosion, oil and grease the bits that are supposed to be oiled and greased and ride the thing. It wasn't an expensive model so probably not worth doing a big restoration job on it.

You bought it for a cheap bike to ride. You've got one. If you start pulling it apart and pissing about with it, you aren't riding it.

Just like an old motorbike, spend your money on the bits that actually matter. If you bought a CG125 for a commuter, would you strip it down and repaint the frame or would you slap some paint on the rusy bits?

So tyres, are they in good nick? If not, replace them (conti do some decent 27" tyres).

Chain? Free moving, not rattling, no tight links?

Brakes. Brake blocks have come on a long way. I like the clarks triple compound ones.

As it happens, I have a pile of parts from a higher-end dawes of a similar era sitting about. I bought it for the reynolds tubing frame but it turned out to have a cracked dropout. If you find you have broken cycle parts, PM me.

Invest in a track pump. Most of them do both presta and schrader valves. Putting 90-100psi into a tyre with a hand pump gets boring quickly.

There is a lot to be said for older bikes. Worn parts are cheap to replace and easily fixed. I just spent 4 hours failing to fix the worn brifter on Mrs stinkwheels road bike. It's a nightmare of tiny parts like a watch. I had to make a jig to get it all back together and haven't fixed it anyway because it's worn out. You can't buy parts for them, they are sold as a unit. Just ordered a new one, probably for more than you just paid for your whole bike, and I have to re-use the actual levers because they'd be the ssame again!
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Poseidon]

Cheers Stinkers... You've captured the essence of what I'm going for perfectly. As far as I can tell, everything works as it should. Even the chain looks like new, without a spot of corrosion/stiff links etc. Aside from replacing the stickers, I want to replace the wheels with aluminium rims for longevity and pop a comfortable seat on there. Got a pair of continental ride tours on their way to me as we speak.

Speaking of wheels, spent a couple of hours at it tonight...

Before:

https://i.imgur.com/hZTEQEX.jpg?1

After:

https://i.imgur.com/5WbNU61.jpg?1

[Poseidon]

Okay... may have hit a snag. The continentals have "use only on hooked rims" embossed in the sidewall. I'm pretty sure the rims on my 80s racer are not hooked, no matter how hard I concentrate or how many times I run my finger along the edge to convince myself they are (pic below). I'm guessing running these tyres on these rims risks the tyre coming out of its seat under braking turning etc... in which case, may be worth getting some new wheels with hooked rims (makes more sense doing it this way as long term I want to replace the wheels anyway).

Okay, where to buy some 27 x 1.25 hooked rim wheels...

https://i.imgur.com/CsXEpSi_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stinkwheel]

It isn't necessarily much of a "hook", more of a "slight bulge" on many. Those have pretty deep flanges, I seriously doubt a tyre is going to come off them (you'll see how hard it is to put them on!). I'd run them but stick to the lower end of the inflation range.

Alloy 27" rims are tricky to come by but they are out there. I used these on my last wheel build but it looks like the seller has shut up shop for the time being.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192177296753

You might be limited in your brake block selection for those old weinmans. If they are original, I'd replace them though, cheap as chips. I suppose it depends how well they work. Should get a proper hold of those dressed steel rims!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Poseidon]

I went ahead and fitted them. They were, shall we say, snug... . There's no budging them. Kept the pressure at the lower end too. Took your advice and bought a topeak joe blow mkIII, which makes putting air in an awful lot easier! I did find these, from a shop in Norwich. I'll be saving up some pocket money and will get a pair... https://www.freemanscycles.co.uk/bicycle-parts/wheels/27-x-1-1-4-standard-touring-wheel.html.

I swung by my LBS for some rimtape, just so happened they had the brake blocks I needed, so picked up a couple of pairs. So that's that sorted. Ran through the gears, everything works beautifully. Took it for a quick spin and my goodness it goes a lot faster, a lot easier than on a mountain bike! Smooth as silk too. It's been well looked after, that's for sure. The only slight rattle on it is coming from the mud guard, so I'll take a look at that Sunday when I'm day off. Wifey made me put everything away tonight, apparently the living room isn't a makeshift bike workshop! Who knew.

Thanks for you help stinkwheel! I really appreciate it!
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stinkwheel]

Yeah, I'm constantly baffled by the number of people who choose to ride a mountain bike on the road. They are in-turn baffled by how I can be faster than their 36 gears on a single speed road bike and why I hardly seem to pedal until I give them a go.

Rigida rims are pretty bomb-proof. I specifically use them if I'm building a wheel for someone careless.

Had some budget wheels with quando hubs before too. Worked fine but it's worth greasing and adjusting the bearings when they arrive, there wasn't much in there on the ones I got. I'm trying to remember if they had a full compliment of bearings or used those bearing spacer frame things. If they are using spacers, I'd be tempted to swap in a full compliment of unspaced ones. I think 11 per side usually but in any case, fill the race then remove one.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Poseidon]

Done about 30miles so far. Have to say, it's a lovely bike to ride. Took a little bit to put my faith in such skinny tyres on corners and what have you, but quite comfortable going round corners with some pace now. The gears are maybe a touch short... I'm finding I'm not having to use the lowest gears going up the hills round here. I can cruise comfortably between 14-18mph (I'm not what you'd call "in shape"). In top gear, giving it as much welly as I can I can hit 25ish on the flat. The brakes are starting to bed in too, they were a bit weak to begin with. I'm also starting to get comfy with the down tube shifters.

Theres a couple of niggles to sort. The freewheel doesn't run true, so in 1st and 5th gears there's a little noise from the chain rubbing on something. It disappears in the middle gears. Its only mild, so I'll probably just live with it until I get round to replacing the wheels and get a new freewheel at the same time. It'll be needing some new cables and cable outers too. Oh and the rear mud guard was rattling, so I tried tightening it up and stripped the thread where it attaches to the base of the seattube. Should be an easy enough fix.

Here's some pics. It's in need of a ruddy good clean and polish!

https://i.imgur.com/IO7MIVe.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/awg6fUx.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/banaWTn.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/8S0nMop.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/qeoTaL3.jpg?1
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stinkwheel]

I'd replace the chain when you do the new freewheel. For similar reasons to motorcycles.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Poseidon]

Is the honeymoon over?

Absolutely not... I've been out on the bike most days, riding 10-20miles each time. Still love riding my little slice of classic British cycling. A few issue have surfaced though. There's an issue with the rear wheel. Given the amount of corrosion on it, I'm loath to spend any time at all fixing the wheel and I'm thinking it's time to pop a new wheel in there. I'm almost certain the gap for the wheel is 126mm. All the replacement wheels I've found are 130mm. Given that equates to a couple of mm either side, I'm thinking a bit of shoehorning and it'll be fine, unless there's a compelling reason to not do this.

Similarly, is there any reason i shouldn't upgrade to a 7speed freewheel? There's a fair amount of additional space on the derailleur's movement that should accommodate the extra cogs and, as we all know, more normally equates to better. Although, thinking about it, would this then cause issues with the chain alignment coming off the front sprockets/derailleur? Speaking of derailleurs, the front one has gone a bit squiffy. So will have to track one of those down off. I'm thinking ebay.

Not looking to spend a fortune here. I spend most of my time stuck behind my 10year old on his 24" wheel MTB. Just need it to function reliably. Stinkwheel, given that you have almost exclusively become my sage on these matters... how does this shopping cart look?

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/screenshot_20200521-192129_chrome.jpg
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stinkwheel]

Read, absorb, decide.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

[stinkwheel]

Also save you £6. You don't need a chain whip to put a spin-on freewheel on.

Rotafix put's things on V. f-ing thight. Tight enough to ride fixed gear. You just don't need to be precious about the paint on your BB shell.

Suitably amusing foul-mouthed Aussie demonstrating rotafix: https://youtu.be/y16rJ0M4YLY

I personally like KMC chains.

Make sure the horizontal swing of your deralieur isn't going to let it hit the largest cog if it's significantly larger than the one you have.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[ThunderGuts]

[ThunderGuts]

Oh and if using quick-links, these are great (I don't have a problem splitting the links by hand on the road bike that never sees bad weather, but on the commuters which are ridden daily all year around, the links get very difficult to undo). It's a once in a lifetime purchase, it'll never wear out.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s72p3270/BIKE-HAND-Master-Link-Tool-YC335CO
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TG.

[Easy-X]

Chain splitters are dead easy to use... until you wind them just a bit too much and the pin bounds off into the undergrowth

With regards to hub gears: highly underappreciated bit of kit, IMHO. Derailleurs are cheaper to make and also fulfil the [corrupted] adage of "gearing not only needs to be done but needs to be seen to be done!"

For strength (assuming a decent brand) less is more: a 3 or 5 gear hub will take a lot more abuse than 7 gears. A decent 3 gear hub is a highly sort after item for high powered mid-drive eBike motors. Driving a conventional 9 speed cassette with even a moderate 1.5kW motor will see saw-toothing and busted chains aplenty.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

I believe Sheldon Browns ultimate aim was a functional 10 speed cassette mounted on a 3-speed, internally-geared hub...

I would roll with that.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[ThunderGuts]

[Poseidon]

Can't say I've ever used hub gears. I don't really know much about them. They sound expensive.

As for my bike, the bits are on the way. Took stink's recommendations and ditched the whip and also went with a kmc chain. The rear derailleur has two mounts for the wheel closest the cassette, one for 24t and the other 28t, so it'll accommodate the 7speed freewheel without issue. I'm a bit gutted though as the front derailleur is properly goosed. Thankfully the cheap shimano one from my broken mountain bike fits fine and will do the job for now until I can get something period correct. That being said, I'm more of the opinion of function over form with this bike (although as time goes on and I'm riding more and more, I am starting to become a bit more precious over it...).
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stinkwheel]

Suntour Vx? A bit of wear on the back plate but all seems quite functional otherwise. For a 28.6mm tube. It's off a late 70's Dawes galaxy.

PM me an address and I'll bung it in a jiffy bag and you can paypal me whatever the postage was when it arrives. I'l warn you I'm notoriously unreliable on actually posting stuff though, it sits in the van for days.

I refuse to use front deraleiurs so it's of no use to me.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=103607

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=103608

Any other bits you need because I have most of the cycle parts from it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Poseidon]

That looks much better made than the huret I took off. I'll PM you my particulars. Theres nothing else the bike needs. And theres no rush as the shimano is doing the job well enough for now. Really appreciate that!
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Easy-X]

When I had a go at making a fixie I stripped a 7 speed Shimano IGH off the donor bike and got £50 for it from a hipster place in the City.

Donor bike cost me £40
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[ThunderGuts]

[Easy-X]

At the end of the day you could do that with anything. Mainly thinking of cars and bikes. Comes down to storage though.

As it was the back wheel was going in the bin anyway as I wanted that old skool "pedal backwards" brake. More money to be had delacing the wheel and selling the hub on its own!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter