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Rebel
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps this subtle presentation is an effort to allow a gradual adaptation with the key objective being to avoid causing fear.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

What leads you to believe it wasn't space junk burning up in the atmosphere?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
Perhaps this subtle presentation is an effort to allow a gradual adaptation with the key objective being to avoid causing fear.


Or, employing liberal use of Occam's Razor, perhaps the crude presentation is an effort to allow the video maker to mask the fact that there's nothing really out of the ordinary and gain attention from the gullible conspiracy hordes. Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
What leads you to believe it wasn't space junk burning up in the atmosphere?


Be-be-be-be-because HEWANTSTOBELIEVEINALIENVISITSSOMUCHITHURTS Laughing

Oh and that the confirmation bias is strong in that one too. Wink
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Rebel
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The behaviour seems atypical, the lights are fixed in relation to each other, without any drift, they appear to maintain altitude and leave no trails, the flashing seems very regular and no sound is apparent.
At least the pentagon and US navy, presumably experts in the field of aerial observation, are prepared to retain an open mind, unlike those sceptics who remain bereft of objectivity.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
The behaviour seems atypical, the lights are fixed in relation to each other, without any drift, they appear to maintain altitude and leave no trails, the flashing seems very regular and no sound is apparent.
At least the pentagon and US navy, presumably experts in the field of aerial observation, are prepared to retain an open mind, unlike those sceptics who remain bereft of objectivity.


Objectivity? Show me a steady clear image of one of these phenomena. They're always poorly shot to disguise the fact that they're not actually anything other than completely explainable without invoking aliens.

There's maintaining an open mind and objectivity and there's gullibility.

Occam's razor strikes again:

https://apnews.com/article/spacex-media-hawaii-honolulu-9f60c61983b40e1302a2e138d1b326fd

With a nice clear photograph from the Mauna Kea observatory.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
The behaviour seems atypical, the lights are fixed in relation to each other, without any drift, they appear to maintain altitude and leave no trails, the flashing seems very regular and no sound is apparent.

You realise they're far, far away?
Rebel wrote:
At least the pentagon and US navy, presumably experts in the field of aerial observation, are prepared to retain an open mind, unlike those sceptics who remain bereft of objectivity.

Source?
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Rebel
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 22:30 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:

With a nice clear photograph from the Mauna Kea observatory.


That's a good spot for a camera, nice footage.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article246732446.html

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Source?


https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:

That's a different event and they're just calling it unexplained. You're calling it evidence of aliens. Big difference.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
Islander wrote:

With a nice clear photograph from the Mauna Kea observatory.


That's a good spot for a camera, nice footage.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article246732446.html

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Source?


https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real


All the navy is confirming is that the videos themselves are real. I'd still go with optical artifacts, again, Occams razor. We've done this one before Razz
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Rebel
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I said, and I think my link is ample corroboration.

Rebel wrote:

At least the pentagon and US navy, presumably experts in the field of aerial observation, are prepared to retain an open mind


“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,”
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


All the navy is confirming is that the videos themselves are real. I'd still go with optical artifacts, again, Occams razor. We've done this one before Razz


The only problem I have with that is, don't you think that someone in the USN, the pilots, video analysts etc would also have come to that conclusion? I mean, they're probably a bit more knowledgable on these things than you and I, seeing as they use this equipment on a daily basis as part of their professional careers. Also, in a moving aircraft, would an optical artefact remain static, unchanging like the videos show? And would they show up on multiple sensors as they have?

Other than that, I'm not saying anything - I don't need the heat that comes with claiming "aliens! Shocked " Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
The only problem I have with that is, don't you think that someone in the USN, the pilots, video analysts etc would also have come to that conclusion? I mean, they're probably a bit more knowledgable on these things than you and I, seeing as they use this equipment on a daily basis as part of their professional careers. Also, in a moving aircraft, would an optical artefact remain static, unchanging like the videos show? And would they show up on multiple sensors as they have?

Other than that, I'm not saying anything - I don't need the heat that comes with claiming "aliens! Shocked " Laughing


While you're broadly right, your supposition depends on a couple of things. Firstly, how well they analysed the video at the time and more importantly whether that analysis has been declassified along with the footage. If, for instance, they discovered that their imaging systems were at fault then I'd imagine that they wouldn't be keen to let that be widely known. Secondly, where in the image capture and processing system the artifact occurred. If it were a lens/optical train artifact then that could easily appear on any sensor couple with the optical system. Likewise if it were an artifact of the processing/recording system.

Let's face it (and take a quick slash with Occam's razor again Laughing ) there's a far higher probability of it being an artifact than Zag from the planet Zob taking the wife and kids for a quick whiz around for a dekko at the primitive life on the strange blue planet. Razz

It's funny how these things are only seen by people that think 'aliens!' - they're never seen by the hordes of amateur astronomers who although amateur often have quite professional equipment and and equally professional and methodical approach to observation.

Then there are the professional observers as well...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
The only problem I have with that is, don't you think that someone in the USN, the pilots, video analysts etc would also have come to that conclusion? I mean, they're probably a bit more knowledgable on these things than you and I, seeing as they use this equipment on a daily basis as part of their professional careers. Also, in a moving aircraft, would an optical artefact remain static, unchanging like the videos show? And would they show up on multiple sensors as they have?

Other than that, I'm not saying anything - I don't need the heat that comes with claiming "aliens! Shocked " Laughing


While you're broadly right, your supposition depends on a couple of things. Firstly, how well they analysed the video at the time and more importantly whether that analysis has been declassified along with the footage. If, for instance, they discovered that their imaging systems were at fault then I'd imagine that they wouldn't be keen to let that be widely known.


If that were the case, they wouldn't have released the videos at all.

Quote:
Secondly, where in the image capture and processing system the artifact occurred. If it were a lens/optical train artifact then that could easily appear on any sensor couple with the optical system.


That's highly unlikely, especially as the object, and others previous to the video example, were fixed by shipborne systems also.

Quote:
Let's face it (and take a quick slash with Occam's razor again Laughing ) there's a far higher probability of it being an artifact than Zag from the planet Zob taking the wife and kids for a quick whiz around for a dekko at the primitive life on the strange blue planet. Razz


There's also a possibility that it was some other kind of technology very much of this Earth, which appears to be the USN's greatest concern, or at least, why they haven't dismissed it altogether. Whether it is highly advanced compared to anything known is another matter. A good reason for their concern would be the fact that they had been seeing these things on monitoring systems in that airspace, with the worry of them conflicting with military aircraft using that airspace. The possible consequences are obvious.

Quote:
It's funny how these things are only seen by people that think 'aliens!' - they're never seen by the hordes of amateur astronomers who although amateur often have quite professional equipment and and equally professional and methodical approach to observation.

Then there are the professional observers as well...


So you're claiming that amateur astronomers are more skilled at interpretation, on equipment they know nothing about by reason of it being classified, than military personnel that operate this equipment all the time?

What professional observers are you referring to? I take it you mean military professionals with the proper experience of such equipments, or civilians involved with its design and/or manufacture?
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Rebel
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 00:10 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting snippet from the pilot who visually engaged the object.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPPNPKlIubI

Edit: A combination of visual, video and radar confirmation suggests something tangible was present.


Last edited by Rebel on 00:38 - 29 Oct 2020; edited 1 time in total
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the observer's perspective this light is inexplicable and fascinating too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uWtjrklWhMc
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw:

Islander wrote:
and take a quick slash with Occam's razor again.


I should think you've made it quite blunt by now Laughing

And to which I'd also add that Occam's Razor is only as effective as those who wield it, i.e. those with the relevant experience in the subject contemplated; in this case, military monitoring and tracking systems, to reiterate a point.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aliens are whizzing around scaring cattle! Aliens are scoping out our nuclear facilities! Aliens are among us RIGHT NOW!

And the single point of failure in that reasoning? People.

We just can't keep our mouths shut. If there were real, tangible aliens out there - between blabbing to some under-age prostitute on a desert island* or leaving a laptop on a train - we'd know about it.

*allegedly
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Lex Fridman. He's a smart guy. But he's also human. He knows that science isn't everything that is important to humans. But he also knows how to approach it correctly imv. Part of which is have an open mind, but without jumping to conclusions on poor evidence. He probably best represents my view on this subject, which is, it looks like there is something going on, I can't explain it, so I'll reserve judgement until more is known, but it's an interesting thing to consider.

Commander David Fravor on Lex's podcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E

On topic part begins at about 1:11:20
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 13:28 - 29 Oct 2020; edited 1 time in total
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It comes down to what sort of person are you? If you believe aliens are among us you'll look for evidence to back up this belief. Or you might see a shaky video of some lights in the sky and "kewl! but that could be anything..."

We all do it to some extent. Take buying a bike: you read the reviews, ask some friends, get your arse handed to you by BCF members and then you go out and buy it. Cue Stage 2 where you try and find more positive views and tips about the bike - seeking validation.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
Something extraordinary is plainly happening here.

Why would they upload an edited copy rather than the original?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Rebel wrote:
Something extraordinary is plainly happening here.

Why would they upload an edited copy rather than the original?


Not sure which particular example you're referring to, but with Fravor he clearly states, I think on the Joe Rogan podcast, that there is certain information given on the aircraft display that is classified, as it tells more than they want to release about the system capability. So they edited the video to block that information out.
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WULFSTAN
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

👽s live in the sea so deep down we can't see them. End of.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

If that were the case, they wouldn't have released the videos at all.


Or releases an edited video which they did.

chickenstrip wrote:

That's highly unlikely, especially as the object, and others previous to the video example, were fixed by shipborne systems also.


Systems or Mark Is? Laughing

chickenstrip wrote:
There's also a possibility that it was some other kind of technology very much of this Earth, which appears to be the USN's greatest concern, or at least, why they haven't dismissed it altogether. Whether it is highly advanced compared to anything known is another matter. A good reason for their concern would be the fact that they had been seeing these things on monitoring systems in that airspace, with the worry of them conflicting with military aircraft using that airspace. The possible consequences are obvious.


Granted. Perhaps development tests of stealth technology? Who knows?

A more prosaic analysis (not mine Razz )

"Mundane, non-pseudoscientific explanations include instrument or software malfunction/anomaly/artifact,[22][23] human observational illusion (e.g., parallax) or interpretive error,[5][24][25][26] or common aircraft (e.g., a passenger airliner) or aerial device (e.g., weather balloon), with the science writer Mick West stating that the reported objects in these incidents are "most likely...a relatively slow-moving object like a bird or a balloon," and that "the jet filming it is moving fast, so this creates an illusion of speed against the ocean."[20][21] West stated that the GIMBAL video can be explained as footage of a distant plane with the apparent rotation actually being the glare in the IR camera rotating.[1]"

chickenstrip wrote:
So you're claiming that amateur astronomers are more skilled at interpretation, on equipment they know nothing about by reason of it being classified, than military personnel that operate this equipment all the time?


Where did I say any of that? It was clear from the context that I was referring to the general OMGITSAUFOHELPANALPROBINGHAPPENING type event rather than the videos specifically.

I stand by that statement as well. There are large numbers of amateur astronomers watching the sky every night and a smaller number during daytime (solar astronomy, transits, etc.). I've never seen a single report from an astronomer about a UFO. It's always a dodgy video, poorly shot, wobbly, often out of focus and punted by typical conspiracy theorists.

Also highly trained military observers? They thought that the Orford Ness lighthouse was an alien UFO landing in Rendlesham forest. Razz

chickenstrip wrote:
What professional observers are you referring to? I take it you mean military professionals with the proper experience of such equipments, or civilians involved with its design and/or manufacture?


Again, no. I'm talking about the same as before only professionals this time using very sophisticated equipment that they may have had a hand in designing and building as well as operating. Again, I've never seen a single report from one.

Always the Rebel types that so desperately want to believe. Confirmation bias Razz
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 29 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Btw:

Islander wrote:
and take a quick slash with Occam's razor again.


I should think you've made it quite blunt by now Laughing

And to which I'd also add that Occam's Razor is only as effective as those who wield it, i.e. those with the relevant experience in the subject contemplated; in this case, military monitoring and tracking systems, to reiterate a point.


It's OK I keep it in a pyramid to sharpen it. Razz Laughing

Occams razor doesn't actually need relevant experience it just needs the application of careful rationality rather than overthought fantasy. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's more likely to be a duck than a cyborg zebra impersonating one. Wink
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