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Gazz |
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Gazz World Chat Champion
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davebike |
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davebike World Chat Champion
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Posted: 07:48 - 07 May 2020 Post subject: |
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I would not use red grease on the pistons it is best used on sliding parts Silicon grease or silicon spray is best for the pistons ____________________ Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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kgm |
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kgm World Chat Champion
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wr6133 |
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wr6133 World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 10:02 - 07 May 2020 Post subject: |
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It's normal practice to put nothing at all on your brake calipers. Clean them with a high flash-point zero-residue solvent or hot, soapy water then rinse.
Some people use red grease on the seals during assembly but most manufacturers actually recommend using either brake fluid or specialist wetting compound (which I suspect is actually brake fluid from its appearance).
If I'm parking mine up for a while, I take the pads out, pump the pistons out, clean them then push them back in, apply a wipe of ACF50 to the whole caliper then refit. The ACF burns off first use but it's not on the pistons, just the alloy calliper body ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Gazza M |
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Gazza M Crazy Courier
Joined: 19 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:38 - 07 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Simply put as long as the braking surfaces (pads, discs) are free of grease the braking performance itself should be ok. Echoing the other posts if you're using grease use the right types, keep them clean so it doesn't turn into grinding paste and don't go mad with it.
Personally I use copper grease on pins, haven't found a need for rubber grease on brakes yet, but then again I've not done a full strip and rebuild of them. On the hydraulic systems I work on (F1 PU bits) red rubber would be on the dust seal if any, working fluid on the pressure seals. ____________________ Past: '07 YBR125, '00 GPZ500S, '99 ZRX1100, '98 CBR600 track bike, '97 ZX9R
Present: '05 R6 track bike, 140 pit bike |
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notbike |
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notbike Formerly known as notabikeranymore
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kramdra |
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kramdra World Chat Champion
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Eddie Hitler |
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Eddie Hitler World Chat Champion
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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kgm |
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kgm World Chat Champion
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Posted: 10:38 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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kramdra wrote: |
I found red grease turns to shit, particually fuckering the dust seals, and I get much longer between strips if I assemble with plain brake fluid.
I notice, from fixing a few callipers, people put far too much red grease in, it only needs the tiniest amount. It is not a replacement for brake fluid! |
I've found the opposite in the winter, a little on the slider pins and it stays good, and doesn't swell the rubber. Maybe some types are better than others. Likewise a tiny amount on the outside of the piston (i.e. pump it out a little, add grease, push back in) provides a barrier to protect the dust seals. If I didn't do this with my er6 the dust seals would cause issues constantly, not so using the grease.
Small amounts though. I don't grease the pistons on a rebuild though. I just use brake fluid, don't want grease in behind the fluid seals.
I don't do this with my VFR, the calipers have closer tolerances and its not necessary. I've stopped using copper grease on the back of the pads as most modern pads have a coating already that reduces friction and I don't find adding copper grease makes any difference.
Don't use copper grease on the slider pins. It's an anti seIze, not a lubricant and can swell the rubber as it's petroleum based. |
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DJP |
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DJP Crazy Courier
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:16 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Red rubber grease is quite safe to use on seals and to ease the pistons into the caliper. You only want a tiny smear of it not dollops of the stuff. It's often supplied in a small sachet along with the replacement seal kit.
Brake fluid is also suitable for lubricating caliper seals but remember to keep it away from painted surfaces. |
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JackButler |
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JackButler Traffic Copper
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 20:37 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Oh deary fukkin me. Do most of you actually own a motorcycle?
Nothing, absolutely nothing except hydraulic fluid should ever be on the wet side of the seal. Seals can & should be lubricated with hydraulic fluid during fitting the piston. What in Gods name are you smearing all over that piston? Put the piston down & step away from the motorcycle.
No grease, no lubricant, no KY jellies, copper, or anything at all should ever be introduced to the pads, front or back. If I ever catch anyone of you muppets advising this ever again then have the muppet balls to publish your full details to pass onto the family of the recently deceased.
Red rubber grease, which is known not to rot the rubber of the seal, can be applied lightly to the air side of the seal to act as a dust trap & water repellant. Do you know what red rubber grease is made of? Thought not, Google it you sad b@stards & maybe you'll understand . . .
Jayzus, this is facebook bots promoting yootoob fukwits like Delboy style advice. ____________________ I clean my guns with the tears of the snivelling, left wing scum. |
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kgm |
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kgm World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:18 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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JackButler wrote: | Oh deary fukkin me. Do most of you actually own a motorcycle?
Nothing, absolutely nothing except hydraulic fluid should ever be on the wet side of the seal. Seals can & should be lubricated with hydraulic fluid during fitting the piston. What in Gods name are you smearing all over that piston? Put the piston down & step away from the motorcycle.
No grease, no lubricant, no KY jellies, copper, or anything at all should ever be introduced to the pads, front or back. If I ever catch anyone of you muppets advising this ever again then have the muppet balls to publish your full details to pass onto the family of the recently deceased.
Red rubber grease, which is known not to rot the rubber of the seal, can be applied lightly to the air side of the seal to act as a dust trap & water repellant. Do you know what red rubber grease is made of? Thought not, Google it you sad b@stards & maybe you'll understand . . .
Jayzus, this is facebook bots promoting yootoob fukwits like Delboy style advice. |
Aaand breathe.
Red rubber grease is fine. Just a smear. Brake fluid is fine. Nothing controversial or mechanically inappropriate here.
Oh and strictly speaking, there's nothing wrong with using a smear of copper grease on the piston contact area on the back of the pad. Again, a smear. I don't generally bother but mechanics have been doing this for as long as I'm aware. There's also nothing wrong with using a small amount on the pad retaining pin(s) either to prevent them from seizing. It's all about quantity and placement.
Slider pins? I use a smear of silicone grease.
No bad advice here at all. |
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Eddie Hitler |
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Eddie Hitler World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 22:52 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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JackButler wrote: | Oh deary fukkin me. Do most of you actually own a motorcycle?
Nothing, absolutely nothing except hydraulic fluid should ever be on the wet side of the seal. Seals can & should be lubricated with hydraulic fluid during fitting the piston. What in Gods name are you smearing all over that piston? Put the piston down & step away from the motorcycle.
No grease, no lubricant, no KY jellies, copper, or anything at all should ever be introduced to the pads, front or back. If I ever catch anyone of you muppets advising this ever again then have the muppet balls to publish your full details to pass onto the family of the recently deceased.
Red rubber grease, which is known not to rot the rubber of the seal, can be applied lightly to the air side of the seal to act as a dust trap & water repellant. Do you know what red rubber grease is made of? Thought not, Google it you sad b@stards & maybe you'll understand . . .
Jayzus, this is facebook bots promoting yootoob fukwits like Delboy style advice. |
Lmao. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 22:54 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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I have never and I will never lubricate the caliper pots/pistons. Pots/pistons are exposed to the elements and greasy things atract dust (brake dust) and dirt. Sliding pints of a floating caliper, on the other hand, are a completely different story and I do lubricate them, because those are covered with a rubber boot. Or at least they should be.
Pretty much no moving part of your motorcycle, that is fully exposed to the elements, should have any grease on it at all. The only exception being the final drive chain that gets replaced regulary for that very reason. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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notbike |
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notbike Formerly known as notabikeranymore
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 23:04 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Actually JackButler is right despite typing furiously.
What tangible benefit has anyone had, in this thread, from putting copper slip on the back of pads, or grease on the retaining pins?
It's a lot of risk for no real reason other than "I've always done it and I'm afraid to break my habits".
Can understand red grease as a dust sealant/water repellent on the pistons where advised by caliper manufacturer in rebuild instructions.
But has anyone actually studied the benefits of this shit and published research on it rather than claimed it does things through anecdotes? What does grease legitimately help with on brakes?
All this grease shit on brakes seems like old wives tales and hand-me-down hearsay from old school mechanics.
I have never had a problem with not greasing any part of my brakes.
1. Pistons have never seized and they function well every time I go to take the pads out and clean em.
2. My brake pad retaining pins come out easily with a bit of a tug and some brake cleaner, or a poke with a screwdriver, and if they're that bad some needle nose pliers.
My main gripe is with the fact that:
3. There is absolutely no reason at all for copper grease on the back of pads, ever. It doesn't help with heat dissipation, which is the only performance benefit I could vaguely imagine you would want for your brakes.
There is also no moment where the pads would need lubrication against the piston itself. Pistons are made of a harder material than the backs of pads, so copper grease does not prevent any wear to pistons. If pistons don't get worn from contacting pads, what does the grease actually do here then?
My pads have never seized to the piston, so it can't be used as a "release agent" for the brake pad from the piston itself. If that's happening to you, and this is the reason you use copper grease on the back of your pads, your brakes have bigger problems that need addressing. You have to absolutely cook a brake pad and leave it for it to become seized to a piston. For it to get hot enough to weld itself like that, any copper slip on the back of the pad is going to run like water when the brake gets that hot.
People seem to do this shit "just cos" or because "it prevents brake squeal" which is a piss-poor excuse to risk running oil onto your pads and discs. Just get a louder exhaust, clean your discs and pads, or true your discs if you're getting squeal that bothers you. Don't start chucking grease on the pads.
I ride through winter, around 10k miles per year, multiple bikes, never had a problem with having zero grease around my brakes. Got pissed off when Yamaha did it to my R6 after a service and gave them a call to find out why it needed so much copper slip on the back of the pads (and this shit was CAKED onto the back of my pads?!). |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:50 - 08 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Meef wrote: | Actually JackButler is right despite typing furiously.
What tangible benefit has anyone had, in this thread, from putting copper slip on the back of pads, or grease on the retaining pins? |
Copper slip on the retaining pins where they pass through the caliper body to prevent them from seizing in place. We aren't talking dollops here, just a light smear.
Copper slip on the back of the pads is supposed to prevent squealing - I don't really bother with that but if a light smear is applied to the piston contact area then there's no risk involved. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Again, not huge dollops, a light smear.
Quantity and placement are everything here - you're not going to contaminate the linings or the disc surface if you do these things unless you bathe the components in the stuff.
Meef wrote: | It's a lot of risk for no real reason other than "I've always done it and I'm afraid to break my habits". |
There's no risk if you're using small quantities.
Meef wrote: | Can understand red grease as a dust sealant/water repellent on the pistons where advised by caliper manufacturer in rebuild instructions.
But has anyone actually studied the benefits of this shit and published research on it rather than claimed it does things through anecdotes? What does grease legitimately help with on brakes? |
It helps with reassembly and is often provided in rebuild kits for that very purpose. I've seen it specified in manuals as well although I don't really use them for standard stuff like brakes these days. I use it on fork seals too when I'm rebuilding it's good stuff.
Meef wrote: | All this grease shit on brakes seems like old wives tales and hand-me-down hearsay from old school mechanics.
I have never had a problem with not greasing any part of my brakes.
1. Pistons have never seized and they function well every time I go to take the pads out and clean em.
2. My brake pad retaining pins come out easily with a bit of a tug and some brake cleaner, or a poke with a screwdriver, and if they're that bad some needle nose pliers. |
Maybe some of it is. The copper slip on the back of the pads seems to be common practice with cars.
I've had pistons seized to the extent that I've had to use compressed air to get them out and that's with regular maintenance too.
I've had retaining pins seize in place and had to resort to drifting them out. I've had the screw in types seize and the protective caps seize. Again, that's with regular maintenance.
Meef wrote: | My main gripe is with the fact that:
3. There is absolutely no reason at all for copper grease on the back of pads, ever. It doesn't help with heat dissipation, which is the only performance benefit I could vaguely imagine you would want for your brakes.
There is also no moment where the pads would need lubrication against the piston itself. Pistons are made of a harder material than the backs of pads, so copper grease does not prevent any wear to pistons. If pistons don't get worn from contacting pads, what does the grease actually do here then? |
Some of that may well be the case. It's nothing to do with heat dissipation, more to do with squeal prevention and that may have been inherited from car braking systems.
The only bike I have where the piston material is harder than the brake pad backing plate is where I've replaced badly corroded pistons with stainless ones. They're actually quite soft.
Meef wrote: | My pads have never seized to the piston, so it can't be used as a "release agent" for the brake pad from the piston itself. If that's happening to you, and this is the reason you use copper grease on the back of your pads, your brakes have bigger problems that need addressing. You have to absolutely cook a brake pad and leave it for it to become seized to a piston. For it to get hot enough to weld itself like that, any copper slip on the back of the pad is going to run like water when the brake gets that hot. |
I can't say I've ever seen that happen either.
Meef wrote: | People seem to do this shit "just cos" or because "it prevents brake squeal" which is a piss-poor excuse to risk running oil onto your pads and discs. Just get a louder exhaust, clean your discs and pads, or true your discs if you're getting squeal that bothers you. Don't start chucking grease on the pads. |
I'll say it again, quantity and placement is everything. A light smear in the right place only is not going to "risk running oil onto your pads and discs". If you glop the stuff on with a trowel then yes, you're probably going to get problems.
Meef wrote: | I ride through winter, around 10k miles per year, multiple bikes, never had a problem with having zero grease around my brakes. Got pissed off when Yamaha did it to my R6 after a service and gave them a call to find out why it needed so much copper slip on the back of the pads (and this shit was CAKED onto the back of my pads?!). |
I live in a maritime environment and that adds its own particular issues. i've had stuff seize on and it's taken a fair amount of ingenuity and effort to free it up again. As for caked? Once more, quantity and placement... |
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Eddie Hitler |
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Eddie Hitler World Chat Champion
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Posted: 00:44 - 09 May 2020 Post subject: |
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What a divisive topic. . |
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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DJP |
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DJP Crazy Courier
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DJP |
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DJP Crazy Courier
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Posted: 14:51 - 09 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Update: I don't actually use copper grease on brakes at all any more.
I use Ceratec on the backs of the pads and on slider pins.
I got a free tube with a set of car discs and pads. It's probably enough to last me 20 years! ____________________ Suzuki Bandit 1250
https://deejayp999.atwebpages.com/index.html
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 352 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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