Honda CG125 - Clutch gone?

[Kieranroberts...]

Hello,

It’s me again!


Haha, so, my MOT was today (passed). First MOT since 2012!
The MOT station was a 12 mile drive away from me, which meant this is the first proper drive I’ve done on my bike since owning it.
I’ve driven it around the estate a few times which actually ran okay with its Chinese Carburettor and Pod Filter with a play around with the choke and mixture screw (I knew it will probably needed re-jetting and a Different air filter in the future).
I remember the first little 50m test run I did when I got home after buying it, it felt like there was no pull and was revving on the high side. I thought this just the Carburettor needing adjusting.


Anyway, like I said I Was riding it around the estate over the last week and it was fine, pulling around fine, not 100%, but rideable. Felt like there WAS somewhat power changing through the gears. Felt like how the bike should feel. Clutch felt fine.

However, between test rides, the biting point felt strong as should but the next test ride it was high, last minute and sloppy but still tight and springy?
You could put it into gear and let go of the clutch Slowly and it wouldn’t stall really, a quick adjustment to the mixture screw would kinda fix this though, very temporally though? Weird.

Also I know the clutch cable wasn’t trapped etc, it was all free and as it should be.

The ride to the MOT station was okay, I got there okay but wasn’t great. Again, pod filter and a need to re jet the carburettor was probably a culprit. Wasn’t really pulling though.
Revs were high and wasn’t moving really.
Was fiddling with the mixture screw whilst driving and didn’t do much.
(Me being a newbie, I’m not sure it would do much anyway?).
The drive back involved a big long hill, I made it up it but going like 15 mph in 3rd, was revving high but I kept it enough to keep moving without the revs screaming. my clutch lever was fully out.

The ride home was getting worse , was occasionally okay but not most of the time was pulling throttle and not gaining distance.

I got about 2 miles from home and the bike just wouldn’t move, would put it in gear with no clutch and the engine running and it wouldn’t stall.
I put it into gear with the engine off and i could still roll the bike and the back wheel wouldn’t lock up. In every gear.

I removed the clutch cable from the engine to relive the tension of the cable and now the bike would lock the back wheel up whilst changing gears (engine off) like it should.


Long story short...


Has my clutch gone?! Haha



It has decent £10 a litre “Fuchs” 10-40w oil that I put in last week.

However the previous owner, a week before I purchased the bike, he put in 5-30w oil. However, the bike was never ridden with this oil in it. Only started up for my viewing etc...
And me going up and down the road that 50m haha.


Would adjusting the mixture screw constantly when driving cause the clutch plates to wear down?


Answering my own question really: Clutch is gone I’m guessing?

As a quick learner and keen to learn things, is it hard to change the clutch plates (if that is the problem)?. Do you need special tools?
Is it quicker and easier to get a garage to do it? Is it a Job that is easy/harder then it looks/sounds? Is it expensive to get a garage to do the job?


Really annoyed and gutted as I’ve been working on my bike all day everyday For almost 3 weeks to get it though the MOT and now it passed, I can’t even drive it .

I would appreciate any help with this!

Thank You!

Cheers!
____________________
Cornwall

[dynax]

Which oil specifically did you use, because it sounds like clutch slip which would happen if you used an engine oil for cars by mistake, any oil has to be for motorcycles only
____________________
Mike.
Bikes: Xena, Bridget,Florence
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmihUc0xXxYbR4_0l-F1FzA/videos?view_as=subscriber

[stinkwheel]

[Kieranroberts...]

[Nobby the Bastard]

That normally indicates a clutch cable that's snagging as its frayed somewhere.

Take the cable off both ends and see how freely it sides up and down inside the outer sleeve.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[jeffyjeff]

Sounds to me like you may have had the clutch cable adjusted a little too tight. If so, you might be lucky. The fact that removing the cable caused the rear wheel to lock when the bike is in gear is a good thing. If not a damaged cable or too tight adjustment, your clutch is probably shot. There should be slight slack in the cable. You should be able to pull the clutch lever a few mm before the opposite lever on the transmission responds. The good news is that replacing the clutch is not a terribly difficult job. You can find ample instruction on YouTube, maybe even on your specific motorbike.
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Kieranroberts...]

Hi,

The Clutch Cable is in good condition, no snagging or fraying anywhere.

Its also at it "loosest/slackest" setting on both the engine casing and on the lever.
I mean "loosest" as in the screw on the lever is screwed all the way in and same on the engine casing.

At these setting and adjustments, the clutch is engaged. But it wasn't prior to todays ride.

Ive attached a video and photo, the video showing how to engine casing lever is moving and a photo of the angle of what it looks like with the cable connected, at this point the clutch is engaged with no depressing of the clutch level. It wasn't like this before todays ride.

PHOTO AND VIDEO: https://imgur.com/a/fD6Y1lS

Cheers!
____________________
Cornwall

[bypass2]

try where the cable goes to the engine theres a spigot I think it called is that working ok maybe stuck. pull the clutch lever see if it moves. how much oil did you put in

[Kieranroberts...]

[bypass2]

did it need a litre of oil or use the right amount or put to much in

[stinkwheel]

For information, the mixture screw only controls the fuel air mixture between idle and about 1/8 of throttle opening. It will have no effect on the clutch.

I also don't think that's the screw you have been fiddling with, you can normally only alter the mixture screw with a screwdriver. If it's the one with the knurled end you can twiddle with your fingers, that is the idle adjustment which determines how open or closed the throttle is at idle and will have no effect on how the bike runs, it only alters idle speed.

Can we also clear up a couple of terms, because it's confusing.

When most people refer to a clutch being "engaged" they mean the plates are all pushed together and are allowing the engine to turn the gearbox which turns the back wheel. So the situation when you are riding along normally without touching the clutch lever and there is slight slack in the clutch cable.

When you "disengage" the clutch, you pull the lever and tighten the cable which seperates the clutch plates and allows the engine to turn without turning the gearbox and rear wheel.

Another couple of useful terms for you "Slipping" is when the clutch fails to engage properly. So the rev speed of the engine rises without a related increase in overall speed. As if you'd pulled the clutch lever in slightyl.

"Crabbing" is where the clutch fails to disengage properly, so you pull the clutch in fully but the bike continues to try to move along and may or may not stall.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stinkwheel]

Can any CG125 (or similar small honda owners) confirm if it ought to be possible to move the clutch actuator with your thumb like that? Seems pretty loose to me.

Check the ends of the cable outer are properly seated in both ends.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kieranroberts...]

[jeffyjeff]

So it appears that the lever moves through it's arc (what, maybe 30 degrees?) before the clutch begins to disengage, then the lever moves further as you apply more force and the clutch plates separate. Looks reasonable to me. But if the cable is fully adjusted to the loose side, it seems that there might not be enough slack when it is connected to the lever. The lever position when connected looks suspiciously close to the lever position when the clutch begins to disengage.

I read into your post that since you have owned the bike, the clutch has never worked properly to your satisfaction. If you cannot easily feel some slack in the hand lever when the cable is fully adjusted at both ends to the loose side, then something is wrong. Perhaps it broke and was repaired improperly (cable too short for the jacket), or perhaps it is the wrong cable.
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Kieranroberts...]

[jeffyjeff]

[stinkwheel]

Another thought. Do you have standard handlebars fitted? If they are over-height, it might be pulling on the cable.

As an experiment, you could try routing the cable straight over the top of the tank and down to the engine. Just make a mental (or photographic) note of the routing before you do so so you can put it back.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Riejufixing]

[Kieranroberts...]

Hello,

Thank you for all the help and replies!

I tried rerouting the cable and adjusting it every way that it would seem logical to.

Same problem.

I decided to drain the oil and dissemble the clutch.

The brand new oil was smelling bad, had sediment in it, clutch cover had loads of sediment in it too.

I made a tool out of a socket to remove the castle but on the, is it the Oil centrifugal filter?

Took the clutch apart and took some
Photos, I’ll let you Guys have a look
At the photos and tell me why my clutch wasn’t working correctly .

It won’t let me upload straight from my phone so have to attached the photos through a “Imgur” link.

https://imgur.com/gallery/sJvDRdR


Thank You!

Cheers!
____________________
Cornwall

[jeffyjeff]

Clean the plates in solvent and check thickness against specs. Clutch basket is toast. Consider replacing the steel plates if they don't dress up after cleaning (you could use some 220 wet dry sandpaper on them), especially if they are discolored (blue is bad). They are probably not warped, otherwise the clutch would be dragging. Friction plates should be replaced if they are at or near the wear limit. Yours are definitely not worn down to the backing plate yet. Check the springs free length against specifications while you're at it or, if you are in the mood and finances permit, get new ones. Weak springs contribute to clutch slip. Of course, you could simply replace all the parts for a completely fresh clutch. All that crap in the oil is clutch material. The bad smell is what a burnt clutch smells like. You are learning...good for you
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Kieranroberts...]

[Riejufixing]

[Easy-X]

Worth noting that if the clutch isn't disengaging 100% you could compensate by upping the revs (i.e. the idle screw) to allow the engine to overcome the drag and not stall when stationary and idling. (I did this intentionally on my old DT as the clutch plates hadn't been doing anything for 30 years but it's not meant as a long term fix.) I suspect that's what you've been doing.

N00b question: what's actually wrong with the clutch basket? I haven't got my good specs on.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Riejufixing]

[stinkwheel]

Yup, there's your answer then.

You can re-dress the notched edges back to flat with a file or burr but you land up with more slack in the system so it'll happen again faster next time. Not wrong if you are short on cash, costs nothing but time.

Check the plain plates are flat by placing them on a sheet of glass and seeing if they rock or you can get a feeler guage under them. If they are, clean them by de-greasing then sticking some wet and dry paper to a sheet of glass/flat marble slab and sanding in a side-to-side motion to get the blueing off. Then THOROUGHLY clean off again. I actually bung them in the sink, hot soapy water, rinse with hot water, dry immediately and spray with WD40 to stop flash-rust. You don't want any residue from the abrasive getting into your oil

The friction plates don't look horrible and the tangs don't look particularly notched so you'd just need to check if the thickness is within the tolerance stated in the manual.

Also check the splines on the clutch hub for notching.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.