Lithium Ion Batteries

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

I really dont see why having a lead acid would be preferable to a lithium battery in the situation you des ribe. A flat battery is a flat battery.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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TravisBickle · Posted: 21:15 - 02 Jun 2020 Post subject:

You do, you're just being argumentative, but I'll continue to humour you...

Yes as you say a dead battery is a dead battery, but one dies after 30 minutes, the other after 90 to 120 minutes. There's three to times more scope there for potentially coming out realising you've left the ignition on before it goes totally flat on lead acid as compared to lithium. Like I keep banging on about real world scenarios, you say this is a fuckwit thing to do but fuckwits do exist and I have been known to be one of them from time to time. Yeah sure if you leave the parking light on and go to work/bed the battery is going to be dead regardless but in situations like leaving it in the garage while you work on it or sort your shit out, stopping in the street to talk with the kill switch, nipping in the shop or garage etc. these things can and do happen.

I'm sorry I seem to have hurt your feelings you obviously have a hard on for lithium, and I'm not saying it doesn't have it's place, all I'm saying is there's something to consider there and that lithium isn't superior in all areas.
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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
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2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

Kawasaki Jimbo · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :

TravisBickle · Posted: 21:19 - 02 Jun 2020 Post subject:

TravisBickle · Posted: 21:24 - 02 Jun 2020 Post subject:

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

I will say this again.

Your battery is only meant to start your bike and not run the lights when the engine isnt running.

You can still keep on your diatribe about a lead acid keeping the lights on longer but that's not what it's for.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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TravisBickle · Posted: 21:31 - 02 Jun 2020 Post subject:

Correct. And I will say this again. We all goof from time to time (apart from you apparently). I merely thought this information might be useful to some people but you know what, forget I said anything, don't wanna upset anyone Rolling Eyes

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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

I have left my lights on. Once. Back in the 90s with my sirocco. I had to buy a set of jump leads to get it started off a friendly van driver. I never did it again because I learnt from it.

The experience hasn't changed my view on what battery chemistry I use.

I'm more concerned about the potential ball of flames (polymer) or explosion (ion) underneath my bollocks with lithium batteries than leaving my lights on.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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TravisBickle · Posted: 21:55 - 02 Jun 2020 Post subject:

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

In my work life I spent a bit of time doing the money for a team that dealt with Qinitiq team who also happened to do all things relating battery tech for the MOD.

I've seen some very interesting videos of lithium batteries that are the same size as the ones put in night vision goggles.

The manufacturers reckoned that they were the same as the hand made ones the MOD use but they weren't.

The MOD ones just expelled the contents when they vent (the tech term for when the contents are expelled their) whereas the competitors actually exploded. Actually took bits of brick out of the test chamber.

The competitors batteries had more consistent output than the MOD ones but crucially didnt include a weak point for it to vent through.

You really dont want a helicopter pilot to have a battery explode violently on the side of their head.

I did mention the fact that a lot of bikers use lithium batteries and they basically sat on them and when they stopped laughing the advice was to buy them from a well known reputable company.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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pepperami · Super Spammer Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :

TravisBickle · Posted: 10:54 - 03 Jun 2020 Post subject:

Far from being an expert but I'm guessing the answer to that would be "how long is a piece of string?".

If the conditions are correct theres no reason for that to happen spontaneously, but I understand if they're stored/recharged outside of a specified temperature range this could happen, and from what others have said on here if the charging voltage/quality is not up to scratch could also happen. Real world probability? Probably very low on a modern bike but enough to scare me off :-/
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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

A good quality battery should be optimised specifically for use with a vehicle charging system and have circuitry within it that ensures balanced charging across the cells and prevents overcharging.

With this type the risk is minimal but still exists.

Cheaper generic 12v batteries will not be designed specifically for vehicles but charged with a dedicated charger and so could be at a much greater risk of overcharging and runaway thermal events (fire/explosion depending on type.)
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

TravisBickle · Posted: 16:35 - 03 Jun 2020 Post subject:

pepperami · Super Spammer Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :

What about weight?, size for size, are they significantly lighter?
What about output for size? Compared to lead/acid.
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Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

Lithium power density is much higher so for the same size they have more watt hours.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

Hong Kong Phooey · World Chat Champion Joined: 30 Apr 2016 Karma :

Most bike batteries are lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4). I know for sure JMT and Shido are.

This chemistry trades off power density for stability compared to lithium ion batteries that are in mobile phones, vapes etc. When LiFePO4 cells do fail they don't explode, they vent. They also don't set on fire, unlike Li-ion.

Nobody thinks twice about putting a Li-ion phone in their pocket next door to their manvag, nor thinks about it exploding next to their eyeballs, on a plane or in a petrol station.
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pepperami · Super Spammer Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :

Just did a bit of research on teh net!
According to the feedback on this site , they are a fair bit lighter than lead-acid.

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/248790

The battery on my 250 is in good order at the moment.
However when I need a new battery, I could save a bit of weight as well.
Every little helps Smile

.
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!