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Keeping bike off-road, uninsured but not SORN

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kolu
Nova Slayer



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Keeping bike off-road, uninsured but not SORN Reply with quote

Hi all,
I have tried to find an answer but wasn't really successful.

Is it possible (legal) to keep a motorcycle off-road (in garage, not riding it) but having it not insured?

I'm asking because after 1 year of owning my first bike I'm looking to sell it and I will probably already have a replacement so if I could save few £ by not renewing my 1st bike policy I would be happy. I will keep it off the road so the "driving uninsured vehicle on road" seems not to apply but still the law/DVLA pages wording seems not 100% clear to me in this case.

Thanks for all advice!
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kolu
Nova Slayer



Joined: 29 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh shit, I think I just have found an answer - they call it "continuous insurance enforcement law" and the wording is that even if vehicle is not used it has to be insured, unless SORN.

fuck

sorry all for waste of your time.
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dynax
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 06 May 2019
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't declared it SORN it must be insured regardless of whether you ride it or not, get it SORNED it only takes a few minutes online Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 09:14 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. SORN it. I have been taken to court and heavily fined for having a scrap bike in my shed without SORN on it.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got two bikes sorned and not insured. They only have to be insured if they are on the road, not if you have them tucked away on private property.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it true you just have to SORN it once now, not yearly?
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wr6133
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 10:10 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if not using it why not SORN it? Fuck all point leaving it in the garage taxed but uninsured.
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kolu
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?
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dynax
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 06 May 2019
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

No!, the road tax is not transferable, so the new owner would have to tax it anyway.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?

Not in the slightest - they need to buy their own road tax before riding it away from your premises anyway. Yes they can check it's current MOT/tax/insurance status online, but so what?

Bear in mind that you only get road tax refunds for whole calendar months (ie from the 1st of the month), so no point in SORNing unless you coming to the end of a month. Similar timing applies when retaxing it - you can only tax from the 1st of a month. So if, say, you SORNed on 2 June, and re taxed on 30 June, you would be precisely no better off.
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Last edited by Freddyfruitbat on 10:47 - 14 May 2020; edited 1 time in total
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martin734
Spanner Monkey



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PostPosted: 10:46 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?

No. Buying a SORN bike is no more complicated than buying one that isn't SORN. When you buy a bike you simply insure it online or over the phone and then go to https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax to tax it. It takes less than 5 minutes and the new taxed status is logged immediately. You have to do this whether or not a bike is SORN as a vehicle immediately becomes untaxed when it is sold and the new keeper has to tax it before it can be ridden.
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wr6133
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Joined: 31 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?


No. Around 2015(?) it stopped transferring so the new owner has to get it no matter what.

What new bike you getting?
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kolu
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?


No. Around 2015(?) it stopped transferring so the new owner has to get it no matter what.

What new bike you getting?


Okay, I was not sure if there is actually some paperwork around or I'd have to send DVLA my V5C...

I'm getting 2004 Suzuki SV650S in bronze, I've just paid the deposit.
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wr6133
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 12:29 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
Okay, I was not sure if there is actually some paperwork around or I'd have to send DVLA my V5C...

I'm getting 2004 Suzuki SV650S in bronze, I've just paid the deposit.


Do it here https://www.gov.uk/make-a-sorn

Should be a nice change and upgrade. Pictures are mandatory though.
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kolu
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the advice and insights!

wr6133 wrote:
Should be a nice change and upgrade. Pictures are mandatory though.


Will do for sure Smile
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steve the grease
Crazy Courier



Joined: 26 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

SORN is an extension of ' continuous insurance' you can't have a bike taxed in the shed and not insured. You can have it insured and not taxed. But either way it needs to be SORNed. The idea of SORN is that you are making a declaration " Hey Man, it's like off the road, Man" ( apologies to Cheech and Chong there) so there is no excuse if you are nicked

INS+MOT = taxed
NO INS +TAX = you need to SORN Tax will be refunded.
INS+ NO TAX = you need to SORN
Transfer of ownership = tax cancelled and refunded to original owner.

Too many people buying cars with tax disk and then driving round with NO insurance

ANPR has largely made this redundant.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 14 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Is it true you just have to SORN it once now, not yearly?

Yes, thank goodness.
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kolu
Nova Slayer



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PostPosted: 19:29 - 21 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

a teaser (now SORN, needs new battery, oil, coolant, maybe indicators), just delivered:
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200521_103006.jpg
will wait till next month so I can save huge £ on insurance (first year NCB)
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Qyburn
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 14 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 27 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?

It means they shouldn't really be allowed to ride it. I did actually have a test ride on my bike before I bought it. I didn't actually know it was SORN at that time, I was covered by my insurance under the "other bikes" clause. Not sure who would have been liable for the SORN/Tax thing if I'd been stopped - me for using it or him for permitting it.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 18:11 - 27 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qyburn wrote:
Not sure who would have been liable for the SORN/Tax thing if I'd been stopped - me for using it or him for permitting it.


The bike can be taken, not your problem though.
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kolu
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 27 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qyburn wrote:
kolu wrote:
I want to sell it ASAP. Wouldn't it be more complicated or discouraging for the prospective buyer?

It means they shouldn't really be allowed to ride it. I did actually have a test ride on my bike before I bought it. I didn't actually know it was SORN at that time, I was covered by my insurance under the "other bikes" clause. Not sure who would have been liable for the SORN/Tax thing if I'd been stopped - me for using it or him for permitting it.


well, they (prospective buyer) wouldn't be allowed to ride it even if it would be still insured in my name because he wouldn't be a second named driver. or maybe I just don't understand the insurance thing at all...
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Freddyfruitba...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 27 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:
maybe I just don't understand the insurance thing at all...

No Wink - many insurance policies allow the policyholder to ride any other bike not owned by themselves as well as their own, so your prospective purchaser could have a policy like that. However, that cover is (usually? always?) the bare minimum legal cover, so would not include damage to your own machine.
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wr6133
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 09:05 - 28 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kolu wrote:


That bean can Very Happy bet it sounds good.
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Qyburn
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 14 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 28 May 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
kolu wrote:
maybe I just don't understand the insurance thing at all...

No Wink - many insurance policies allow the policyholder to ride any other bike not owned by themselves as well as their own, so your prospective purchaser could have a policy like that. However, that cover is (usually? always?) the bare minimum legal cover, so would not include damage to your own machine.

That's how my policy works ..
Quote:
The policyholder is also insured to ride with the owner's consent any motorcycle not belonging to him/her and not hired to him/her under a hire purchase or lease agreement and provided that the motorcycle is being used within the limitations listed below. This cover is restricted to Third Party Liability only. Excluding use to secure the release of a motor vehicle(s), other than the vehicle(s) identified above by its registration mark, which has been seized by, or on behalf of, any government or public authority.

Note it explicitly excludes me using that clause to recover a mate's bike if it's been seized for no insurance.
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