Unable to start a Honda XR650R after 7 years

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Hi everyone! I hope you are all keeping well, safe and sane during these strange times.

New to the forum, and to bikes (I've never ridden one), so please forgive my ignorance in places. Basically, I have been gifted this 2003 Honda XR650R, a lovely bike dry stored and covered all its life and laid up in 2013 and never used since (3789 on the clock).

I've tried a few of the simple methods of kickstarting it from various youtube vids, but there is not even a smidge of a firing. Certainly rotates, and has good compression. It is a really clean bike, apart from the numerous cobwebs. Well looked after in its time, service history, all fluids check right etc. 4 spare tyres and some other bits with it too.

It was totally dry of fuel, to which I have added fresh fuel to both sides of the tank. Fuel valves are set to 'ON', choke moves to all 3 positions fine, throttle opens and the air filter and exhaust are flowing as should (nothing blocking the intake and I can feel the compression expelling out the exhaust when rotating the engine). Not in gear from what I can tell (as said, I've never ridden a bike so I can't be 100%, but I flick the selector down until no more clunks are heard) Tried with the kickstand up in case of any shut offs as well.

However, and where my attention is drawn to is electrical. the owner and I can't find the key anywhere, so I bought a replacement universal barrel and key set. When inspecting the original barrel just now, I noticed the wires were not plugged in to the barrel. There were only two near by, Black/white and Green on female flat connectors.

There are two other wires lower down with female bullet connectors, orange and blue, but I don't think they relate to anything on the ignition system? I have looked up various wiring diagrams which at best I could ascertain at least that the Green wire is common ground, and B/W likely 'live'. I assume the likelihood of the battery being dead won't effect starting it as well? That's another thought I had.

At this point can anyone suggest things that might be worth checking to get it to splutter at least, as for now its entirely lifeless.

If I can get it running for a bit at least it would be better for the lucky new owner - whomever that be - when I put it up for sale as a contemporary barn find more or less.

Many thanks in advance and as a PS) I'm fairly up to scratch with car mechanics and electrical's, but not bikes, so feel free to get technical if needed.

[jaffa90]

Welcome and OH DEAR, you should be asking for advice before trying anything.
Did you remove the spark plug and lubed inside the cylinder before turning the engine over?

Also the fuel system will need a complete clean.

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Thanks for the welcome

A little spray lube (not wd40!) in the cylinder and a gentle easing down of the kickstarter for a good few rotations before hand sorry. And with the tank being bone dry and clean, I popped off fuel lines as deep in as possible and ran clean fuel through, with no crude etc coming through. Spark plug was replaced.

Don't really want to take things on the engine apart at this point though, just get to see a spark of life to know whats stopping it firing.and go from there.

Would the lube or fuel system purge cause zero ignition though? Or is it a dead ignition control module (or the like) or something up with the wiring?

I will need to pop a spark plug tester on next time and triple check fuels coming down the line still. And hope to figure out a correct wire up for the ignition and eliminate that. Then decide from there if I want to start digging deeper into the motor for fuel issues if that makes sense

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Does the XR have HISS? Only ridden one once so don’t remember TBH.

If it does you’ll need an original key or one to be programmed.
____________________
DILLIGAF

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Thanks, that is the kind of thing I'm pondering. As though theres an imobiliser somewhere. On this bike though the original barrel looks basic and I haven't seen anything in the manual about HISS, but I will look again. I imagine it can be bypassed with a lot of effort and knowledge.

[Robby]

You are not going to get step-by-step advice on how to hotwire a bike on here, that's one of the few things we don't tend to allow.

That said, you should be able to work most of it out from a wiring diagram. Green is usually ground on Hondas, and there are usually only two other wires going into the ignition barrel.

Bikes have small parts and narrow passageways. They don't like sitting. This means the battery will be totally dead - get a new one before trying to do anything else to make a spark. Even if it runs a self-exciting ignition system, having a totally dead battery in the mix can make expensive electrical parts get very sad.

The carb is likely to be blocked with petrol varnish. However, it might still run (or at least cough a bit). There will a drain screw on the bottom. Turn the fuel off at the fuel tap(s), hold a cup under the carb, and open the drain screw. Have a look at what comes out, then get some fresh fuel in them. Fuel is a good carb cleaner.

Neutral is in between gears 1 and 2. So all the way down to the bottom, then up half a click. A green light will show on the speedo when you're in neutral.

New battery, then you can get it in neutral and go looking for a spark. Then give it some easy-start and get ready for a very tired leg. Big singles are a bitch to kick-start when they're in perfect working order.

Then, once you've got it running, change the oil.

[U-E]

Thanks 🙂

I think I might stop at this point and count my losses as its looking more like an ignition issue I think? I am being very careful and gentle, but if anything is out of the ordinary, then its likely electrics, dead module or just a plug out somewhere. But I don't want to risk anything or go mad and start pulling it apart.

It seems the key barrel was a later addition (but still a good ten years old) and removing it and putting the wiring back to its original 'no key' state was simple. Left with one green wire spare though.

It predates HISS I think, and it was set up for road use rather than out of factory set up being an 650R rather than L. I had a good nose in the manual and other documents with the bike. But no mention of HISS or anything on the bike I can see indicating an immobiliser, but good call.

It has no battery, its just a CDI. And no gear display either. If I keep dipping the gear selector down until it clunks no more its okay, but if I go up any I can feel the wheel pulling when gently pressing on the kickstart.

Fuel comes out the overflow and I opened the carb drain and fuel came straight out clean. I'd say it had been drained of fuel before stashing in the garage (I think marriage retired the bike if you know what I mean). Its a new spark plug which was a little wet when checked just now, correct gap and rating. Engine oil looks unused.

So TDC on the kickstart arm, no throttle, decompress lever open for at least 10 cycles and close, a nice long glide on the kickstart but not a hint of firing.

Fuel, air, but seems no spark. Being CDI and the spark plug in a tricky position makes it hard to test. I seem to be getting negative 10volts when gliding the kickstart lever?

I will have one last check over but my money is on the ignition box, coil or ignition wiring at the moment since logically it can't be much else for a zero fire situation.

But thank you all for your valuable input and suggestions, I will put it up for sale soon!

[Scotsrick]

You’re working in the dark till you find out if there’s a spark at the plug.

Can’t you remove the plug and ground it against the engine whilst kicking it over?

Failing that kick it over and stick your finger up the plug cap 😂. (Just kidding if you hadn’t guessed)

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Indeed ☺ First job of the day will be that. I have a plug tester but can't see it being on the opposite side. So I'll use my phone to video the tester, see if it lights up.

However I did run a multimeter on it yesterday but for some reason I was getting - 10 volts when kickstart gliding (decompression lever open). So I need to check the multimeter or me isn't faulty and study the wiring diagram again as to what is in the ignition system that could fail (CDI, coil etc).

See what the day brings 🤔

Update: there is a spark albeit looking a tad weak. Did some other wiring tests to see whats connected, grounded or spare.
Two things stand out and I will look into more - I can't get any reading from the regulator/rectifier but not sure yet if it needs a live circuit to show anything, will check when home again.

The other thing is the spark plug once out, was a tiny bit wet but clean - however its an NGK-R BKR7 EXC, which I hear has some issues. So I've traced a BKR7E-11 to replace it with.

[Robby]

You have a spark. Give it a squirt of easy start and see if it fires.

[sickpup]

Does the XR650R have an ignition key? I thought they didn't and I can't find one on the parts fiche.

[U-E]

It had an ignition key barrel, but found it wasn't wired in and presumably an after market thing as part of a road kit. So I returned the wires back to their original set up.

The original spec spark plug grounded to the block has a much stronger spark than what was fitted. However still no fire, but only after a few kicks (3 or 4) I took the plug back out, it was wet and a decent amount of vapour coming out the chamber.

I know flooding is easy to do, but with the Acerbis tank fitted, it has 2 shut off valves, 1 each side (which I don't think stock tanks have? And just 1 valve). Want to make sure both valves work and its not filling the carb to overflow as I have had happen.

So fuel is there, maybe too much. Spark is there. Going to double check the intake isn't blocked and if anything else in the wiring can be an issue still like the cdi or rectifier. Though surely I'd still get a sputter or partial ignition.

I'm enjoying the little project after 3 months of gardening and working on my car. I am learning more as I go along (we all start somewhere with bikes and not always perfectly). And whatever it sells for will help me during this time when self employed.

See what today brings 🤞