Combat/Forces-related PTSD

[hellkat]

I was recently chatting to someone retired out of the Forces who has some pretty serious PTSD over quite a long and seemingly successful career (well, put it this way: they're still alive ...! )

So I'm interested in hearing of other experiences from people who have been or are now doing Tours, particularly in combat zones. Doesn't matter where or when. Any active service is likely to be relevant.

It's up to you if you want (or not) to explain why YOU think you have PTSD/why that diagnosis was established. I'm not asking you to recount that, but if you can cope with doing so, it would be interesting.

* How does it affect you on a day to day basis, can you hold down a job?
* If not, have you fallen foul of any "government aid" as a result of time spent abroad/your experiences?
* How does your partner cope?
* Ever been sectioned? Or come close to it, as a result?
* Do you need meds? What does it do, how do they help (if at all?)/what side effects do you get and how do you cope with them?

My only previous experience of this is a girl who used to come and visit my former shrink bosses: typing up her notes each week was pretty hair raising and we always had to treat her with kid gloves.

But this is entirely different, as it's someone I find myself really connecting with and am considering offering friendship (if you can call it that) , nothing therapeutic, not any misguided attempt to "fix" things for them: just the process of being able to better understand their behaviour and making relevant adjustments to my attitude when dealing with their "off-days".

But I feel I need to know more about how that sort of stuff really affects people.

The PTSD shrink I worked for had a HUGE range of cases but not many military-related ones, and I'm interested to know of others' experiences.






Ashley: video games do not count.
____________________
Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[MilfHunter]

I suspect a lot of people jump on the PTSD clout train for likes on social media.
____________________
Post nut clarity reveals everything.

[hellkat]

[chickenstrip]

I hear certain psychedelics can be very effective in treating this. With your contacts hellkat, can you fix up a guided session for him? Might not be a great idea to just spike his drink
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[hellkat]

I don't think I really should go down that route.

____________________
Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[chickenstrip]

It might be worth reading up about though. There are occasionally research groups looking for volunteers for properly controlled testing (Robin Carhart-Harris? https://www.wired.co.uk/article/psychedelics-lsd-depression-anxiety-addiction ). Michael Pollan ( https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/22/how-to-change-mind-new-science-psychedelics-michael-pollan-review ) found an extensive psychedelic underground some of whom he felt trustworthy enough to go on his own journey, and him an average kind of middle class guy who mostly wrote books on food. He found some nutters too though!

https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/23/6/385/5805249

There is evidence that they could be a much more effective treatment than current ones.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[martin734]

In 2010 I was diagnosed with PTSD. From 1998 to 2008 I served with the Golani Brigade in the Israeli Defence Force. During this time I fought in the 2nd Intifada in 2000 and the 2nd Lebanon war in 2006 as well as dozens of other minor engagements and skirmishes. In December 2007 I was injured in a suicide bombing at the border checkpoint I was on. I suffered damage to my sight and hearing that led to me being discharged.

I returned to the UK and shortly after that I started to develop mental health problems. I suffered periods of insomnia where I would have less than 24 hours of sleep in a week. I also suffered panic attacks triggered by crowds of people, loud noises and sometimes for no reason at all. I had frequent mood swings and sudden unexplained feelings of anger and aggression. Flashbacks and, when I was able to sleep, nightmares were common.

In 2009 after a very difficult period in which I very seriously considered killing myself I was pretty much forced to seek medical help. At first the help I got was almost useless. Back then, PTSD was still not widely recognised or understood and I was diagnosed with clinical depression and given anti-depressants. These helped a little with the low moods, but were largely useless.

Then in 2010 I read an article about British service personnel coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and suffering from the same mental health problems that I had. I went back to my Psychologist and showed her this article and told her that I didn't think I was suffering from depression and that I would like to speak to someone who could help me with what I was now sure was PTSD. I did get to see someone who diagnosed that I did indeed suffer from PTSD and that I needed specialist counselling. I started to see a Psychologist who was said to be an expert in this field, the counselling sessions were a disaster.

At this time, no-one really new what PTSD was or how to treat it so there were lots of different techniques and ideas on how to treat it that ranged from merely useless to being actually harmful. My counselling sessions basically involved me being interrogated by the Psychologist and having to talk about all the traumatic experiences I had experienced. After 6 months of this my nightmares, flashbacks and anxiety were getting worse. I couldn't take any more of that so I stopped my counselling. I struggled with my mental health for another 2 years before a friend who worked for an armed forces charity recommended a new counsellor. This time things were very different. This person knew what they were doing and used a totally different technique very much along the lines of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). After 6 months I started to feel much better and much more positive. I was even able to start studying at University.

Now, I wouldn't say that my PTSD has gone away, or that it ever will. But I am much more able to manage it now. I still get nightmares and flashbacks, but nowhere near as frequently. I still get occasional anxiety and panic attacks caused by certain triggers, but I am learning to manage those better. I still hate fireworks though and other loud noises and I still feel very uncomfortable in crowded or busy places. My partner is a massive help though. She used to work as a mental health carer and her support and help has made a huge difference to my recovery.
____________________
Current bike: ST1100 "Big Red"

[hellkat]

Ooo thanks for those links. I've registered myself at the Imperial College one a while ago now, and completed their qauestionnaires the first time I did acid.

So I might look into those, but not for my new chum, rather for myself

I appreciate (those of you who might HAVE the sort of experiences I am looking for) that it might take you a while to find the mettle you need to write about it, or indeed that you have to ruminate about it and how to express what you want to say ... so I don't mind.
I'm in no rush.

If you can't bear to bring it up, then that's fine too, I totes understand.


Edit: thank you Martin. For a noob, thats very generous and open of you
____________________
Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[chickenstrip]

[Islander]

An ex-bootie mate of mine fought in the Falklands and has had problems ever since. He finally realised he had to deal with it and went to Combat Stress. They gave him ways to cope with his stressors and the other stuff and he's been improving ever since.

It's a serious problem that gets ignored by the MOD and that frankly, is a fucking disgrace. People put their lives on the line for their country, they have to face combat situations that would scare the crap out of most of us, and they see things that nobody should really see in the normal run of life. At the end of their service it's hand your stuff in, goodbye and forgotten.

[stinkwheel]

I was talking with a mate a couple of weeks back who is an ex para and just about the most resiliant person I know.

He was put in charge of running a group where they talked through experiences and problems with squaddies as he was ending his term.

He's a guy who has very frank and honest conversations (which is why he was perfect for the job, they would tell him stupid things they wouldn't mention to an officer) and came up with an interesting situation which he heard often enough and from enough different people to realise it was an actual real and repeatable problem that needed writing up and mentioning to the headshrinks.

Basically, guys used to go to the latrines for a wank when they were on deployment (often several times a day) and there is now an appreciable number of ex squaddies who struggle get it up without the smell of shite.

Said mate, who is as pragmatic as he's frank, has been suggesting quickly poking their finger up their arse and having a sniff as a solution to this issue...
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[kramdra]

[bhinso]

[Easy-X]

Can't say I know much about this directly, all the ex-military people I know just have that far away "you haven't seen what I've seen" look about them but apart from that they're pretty chilled. (My dad was always super chilled... probably as he only ever went on a few patrols - benefits of being a teletype operator in Royal Signals - but he did have some horrific tales of what the artillery guys got up to.)

Anyhoo, I wonder if it's a failure to compartmentalise, relentless trauma having destroyed the dividers between present reality and memory. And on top of that some people can surround their experiences with solid brick walls while others start with those useless Japanese sliding paper things.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

[wr6133]

If I'm honest I think I suffer PTSD, I try to avoid honesty though

I served in Iraq, I was an Infantryman so didn't get to wank 15 times a day in a porta-shitter (4 at most).

I was on Telic X in Summer '07. It was the tour where we "withdrew", (politicians forced us to retreat), from Basrah City. Up till the point we withdrew that tour was later described as, "The heaviest Urban fighting the Army had seen since Korea". Was blown up more times than a beach ball, I don't know how true it is but allegedly our battlegroup used as much ammunition as the lead battlegroups did back during the invasion. We had entered country being told the local militias had taken over, this was no longer acceptable and we had to destroy them. We did, or at least forced them to negotiate so that our politicians could sell us out.

We took and created alot of casualties (opening fire became as natural as lighting a fag), but the one that I've never got my head right with was my friend. He took a round to the face while in the drivers seat of a Warrior. I was standing in as the vehicle gunner that night, it was a shit pointless operation that used us as bait to start a big scrap with the Mahdi army. He spasmed at point of death and somehow contorted his feet under the pedals. I spent a long time under heavy fire trying to get his body out of the vehicle so we could torch the vehicle. In a confined space with his head flopping about everytime I moved it I ended up literally painted all over in blood and bits of all the other shite in a human skull cavity. After multiple attempts to try to remove the corpse and being told by our platoon commander that hacking his feet off was not acceptable we eventually just hitched the vehicle to another and dragged it (quills were still in place) all the way back to Basrah Palace. It later took over an hour for fresh people not under fire to get the body out.

Immediately after this the Army went through a process. You have to give statements to the military police and then see a medic for a TRIM test, this is some phychological bollocks that gives a score that indicates how likely you are to have issues in the future. The higher the score, the more fucked your head is, highest score is pretty much mentally broken and probably going to nosh off a shotgun at some point. Idea being they use the score to formulate how much care you may need throughout life after a traumatic incident. I managed to max out my score , though the Army must want me to nosh off that shotgun because I never heard anything about it again.

Anyway there is a small bit of background and as much detail as I'll put in open forum. To your questions;

How it effects me day to day, this varies alot. I doubt on any day since I have gone more than an hour without vividly seeing it all again in my head. On bad days I can smell it, I don't mean I rememeber the smell, I actually can smell blood, shit, diesel, phos, smoke, the smells on really bad days then lead to hearing things again, this can get really bad I do sometimes rtr as if in reaction to fire bacause I hear a round or RPG go past. Vivid nightmares are common, these can create a viscious circle of more nightmares due to being tired and I guess anxious, eventually sleep depravation then causes these nightmares to occur while awake during the day. When that happens I'm a danger to people around me, I get confused as to where I am and who is who, my insitinctive response to that is violence.

In the past this meant I couldn't hold down a job, my frst few years post Army were a mess, some brief time in Prison and a series of shit jobs that usually ended with me walking out, often after having hit someone. I've sorted alot of this now, but we'll touch on that later. I have managed though to form a career and nowdays hold down a respectable job with a comfortable salary.

Never seen any Government Aid, don't want any. Bunch of Cunts, sold us out in Basrah City and made it all pointless.

My wife (of 16 years), lets just say she is the most amazing Woman I could ever have hoped to meet. She has stuck next to me through everything and without her as my rock I would have gobbled on the previously mentioned shotgun years ago.

Not been sectioned. Been locked up though, wasn't bad just smoked lots of weed and watched daytime TV.

Meds, from the doctor, fuck that. Tried years back and just got prescribed a combination of shit that made me dribble alot and not function. Didn't make anything better either. Cannabis is my thing, if I go to sleep stoned I don't dream, if I don't dream I don't get nightmares, no nightmares, no sleep depravation. No sleep depravation no daytime flashbacks. Cannabis keeps me sane, alive and able to be a functioning, employed member of society.

It's not a total miracle cure though, my head can and does still visualise stuff in the day but seeing is different to reliving, I get moody but I'm not attacking people so take it as a win.

You want to help your friend, just be normal. Get wasted, fuck, whatever you like. Don't make him focus on something he doesn't want to rememeber but for reasons he can't figure out won't just get the fuck out of his head. I and many others don't even discuss this stuff with the brothers that we lived it alongside, not in any deep meaningful way. I was taught that the issues I'm having are weakness, whether that be right or wrong it means that somehwere in my head what I've typed here makes me feel shame at my own failings..... your friend maybe the same so careful with opening boxes.

[superstacker]

I was 19 years old when I went out to Basra Airport for the first time.

I was basically an RAF storeman working on the fuel depot. It shouldn't have been a dangerous tour and I didn't expect to see much by way of action.

During the tour, the locals turned against the British and began firing rockets at Basra airport. I was on a night shift on the depot and a rocket landed not too far away and scared the shit out of me. Didn't know what it was and what to do really.

These carried on and became more frequent, I went home on R&R and couldn't really function properly away from work and just got drunk for a week. It was far worse flying back into the situation knowing what was going to happen. Nobody understood at home and just said 'you should just be happy you are back'.

Pretty much everyone hates the sound of that mortar attack alarm and it lives with them forever. I never really talked about it much as I felt guilty that there are infantry types that had it far far worse than me and I didn't want to be on the PTSD bandwagon.

4 years ago I finally quit drinking as a coping mechanism and whilst it's under control...I still hate fireworks!

[Easy-X]

The karma rating system is wholly inadequate at this juncture
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[chickenstrip]

I honestly do think that certain psychedelics are showing huge promise for the treatment of such 'disorders'. MDMA seems to be the main one cited for treatment of PTSD. It's so heartening to know that countries are at last allowing research into these. I suppose most people who read this will dismiss it as nonsense, but even back in the 60s when people like Timothy Leary were researching this, before he became a figurehead of the counterculture, many psychologists and associated researchers were finding that they could have huge benefits. We really have done ourselves no favours by having the gut reaction of "drugs bad m'kay".

Honestly, if you still doubt, look it up. There are countless papers and reports on the subject, such as this:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/jpm.2017.0684

To wr and others...of course you know at heart that there is no shame in having the feelings and reactions you have had. Back in the last two world wars, it was indeed often seen as weakness, but we know better these days. You have my, and I am sure, everybody else's sympathy (although I feel certain you are not looking for that), and hope you can find peace in life.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[bhinso]

It's good we recognize PTSD now.
I've been looking into my family history (project whilst furloughed) and how the wars affected my great grandparents.
One poor git served in Gallipoli, The Somme, AND Pascendale. Another was gassed horribly and turned to drink. My grandfather spent time in a mental hospital at the end of the war.
PTSD (shell shock) just wasn't recognized then. You only have to look at the old war films, compared to Saving Private Ryan onwards to see that.

At the weekend I watched 'The Outpost'. Most of them ended up with PTSD and no wonder.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

As a counterpoint, and admittedly without any personal experience, I wonder if having a regular counselling appointment to dwell on the matter would be helpful in terms of "moving on."

[bhinso]

Probably not.

You'd be ask 'how you feel' and given some brochures on groups who might be able to help online

[Pete.]

[Easy-X]

Looking at my own family history I'm probably the first generation not to join one of the armed forces. Certainly for my dad's generation it was seen as a good career path (he left school barely able to write his own name) but for my age I'd have most likely been posted in Northern Ireland and my parents were very firm that no glory was to be found there.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[chickenstrip]